learning the hard way (long)

Callieslamb · #1 09/14/10, 11:15 AM

or- how do you not get taken advantage of? Or....being the small producer, how to you get a break?

I am finding more and more that the smaller producer has such an uphill battle to get any kind of even break. I realize the limitations and am perfectly willing to take back seat in some things. However...it gets so frustrating. What do you do to limit yours? What things do you accept back seat on what what do you not? I have run into so much educational differences in what the big producer needs and what I need. But getting others that provide the services I want is almost impossible. From hay balers to feed store operators..and now the AI guy.

Today, my one jersey cow was scheduled to be bred. I called the AI guy two weeks ago to be sure I was on his route on the correct date and he had the selected semen. He had me give her a shot to be sure she was in heat at the correct time. He has to come up from Indiana and it's $80 if he has to make a special trip for me plus all his regular fees. There are no other AI folks around closer that are willing to deal with 1 cow.

I had to listen to his recitation of big dairy info....why I need to breed my cow at a certain time. Why it didn't matter if she calved twice in less than 12 months. All had to do with productiveness of the cow over her lifetime, etc. Okay, but I am small and don't have to worry so much about those things. So what is she is dry 3 months? So what if I lose 500 lbs of milk during her lactation? I am swimming in milk anyway.

I asked for sexed, A2 semen. He said he would do that. He bred her and THEN said....now, I am not sure if that bull was A2 (his exact words were - whatever silliness that is) and he used a bull with no stats since he doesn't have any daughters yet.....In other words, he used what semen he already had and perhaps wasn't going to get to use for anyone else that mattered

1. I should have asked specifically for the bull I wanted - lesson learned
2. I should have double checked with him - lesson learned
3. I still feel taken advantage of....

I'm small. I can't expect him to buy several straws of his most expensive bulls for just me. Is it too much to expect him to give me the opportunity to though? I would gladly do it. He doesn't seem to want to leave the door open to discussion. How do you handle folks like this? I can't just find someone else so obviously, I have to learn to handle his mentality. Suggestions?

willow_girl · #2 09/14/10, 11:43 AM

You're in SW Michigan. There's a fair amount of dairy down that way. Surely there's a dairy farmer in your area who does A.I. and would be willing to do one of your cows for a small fee? Especially if you 'set her up' so he or she can do it on a prearranged day?

I'd ask around at the feed store.

CrashTestRanch · #3 09/14/10, 12:30 PM

We have no cattle YET, but I want to offer this, it applies in all types of personal transactions/scenarios/interactions:

If these folks are unwilling to help now because you are not one of the big boys, what will they do when/if you get larger? Take advantage of you now, they will do worse later. Cull the AI tech and find someone new.

ETA:
Write them a letter or call and explain you frustrations and why you will not be using their services, may be an eye opener for them.

oneokie · #4 09/14/10, 12:41 PM

Check with local vets. Several in my area do A.I.

Tad · #5 09/14/10, 01:17 PM

Don't feel bad for being small, we have 70 milkers and everyone is subject to what an AI tech has in his tank. Sometimes you just have to pick anouther bull if he is out, ours usually gives us a better bull for the same price if he is out. We asked for sexed jersey semen, around here they shoot bull calves if you send them to market and send you a bill, but they don't carry it. We have to order 20 straws to special order, he will store it for free in his tank but we need to buy the lot. We only have 6 jerseys so it really isn't worth it.

ArmyDoc · #6 09/14/10, 01:21 PM

I feel for you. I know of no way to motivate someone who doesn't want your business in the first place.

So, taking Stephen Covey's approach, let's look at what we can influence and change, rather than what we can't.

Possibilities:

1) Is their a local dairy farmer who does AI near by? If so,
- could you ask them to AI your cow?
- could you take your over their to be AI'd with all his cows?
- if he doesn't do his own AI, who does his?

2) One of the prime characteristics of the successful small scale farmer is an ability to do most things theirself. Their is an AI course you can take and it's not all that expensive (~$500) when you look at annual costs approaching $100 per trip for your current guy. Course you would need a nitro can etc too.
http://www.agtechinc.com/aischool/

3) Is their anyway you can get on the current AI's good side - a lot of people like to help other people, particularly beginners. Perhaps approaching in that way will work better than the more typical business relationship.

cowkeeper · #7 09/14/10, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrashTestRanch

Cull the AI tech and find someone new.

ETA:
Write them a letter or call and explain you frustrations and why you will not be using their services, may be an eye opener for them.

Dont can the tech/company, even though you are dissappointed with the service. The cow is (hopefully) bred, so it's too late for this time. Find out if there are any viable alternatives for future breedings. The company/tech will not miss a one-cow operation, but you will certainly miss them if you 'fire' them, and they turn out to be the only game in town .ck

linn · #8 09/14/10, 01:26 PM

The only way to get the exact bull you want is to order the semen yourself, pay shipping and have it shipped to someone near you with a storage tank.

Lizza · #9 09/14/10, 01:26 PM

I would call around and check local vets.

We special ordered our semen, sexed from one of the top bulls, we had to order two straws at $50 per straw. We called our AI guy, told him the bull we wanted, he ordered it and called us when it was dropped off. We used one of the straws and our heifer took on the first try, so we sold the other straw to another small dairy woman. He said he would sell it for us but we had someone specially ask us for the extra straw if we didn't need it. If I hadn't special ordered then I would have just had to use the "bull on board", I think that is pretty standard. It was $35 for our AI guy by the way and he had to drive about 35 minutes to get to us.

CrashTestRanch · #10 09/14/10, 01:47 PM

the only reason I offered the solution I did was based solely on the info from the OP. Given those circumstances I would cull the tech, just my .o2

The tech did NOT supply the product requested.

FEF · #11 09/14/10, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callieslamb

or- how do you not get taken advantage of? Or....being the small producer, how to you get a break?.......

It sounds like he just doesn't want to mess with you. If that's the case, I don't think there's a lot you can do. As the others have said, look around for other AI options. Are there dairies in your area? Does the local vet do AI? Is there a college in your area that teaches AI? Most route guys from the major semen distributors here, ABS, GENEX, do AI work. I'm sure if I needed to, I could schedule a breeding to the date the ABS rep comes and fills my tank. Perhaps your Extension agent knows someone who AIs? I think you'd be surprised how many people breed via AI. Almost half the Angus cattle registered the last few years have been AI-sired. There are a lot of AI techs out there.

What are your options for natural service?

Callieslamb · #12 09/14/10, 03:42 PM

No dairies here - now up NORTH...they have dairies - big ones. The vet - the only large animal vet that treats more than just horses in 75 miles - is the one that gave me the name of this guy. There is a large dairy 25 miles from me that uses my AI guy as well as a small jersey dairy actually pretty close (

they do milk shares rather than sell to a company, I hear)...from the AI guy and he is really, really shocked by it! Unpasturized milk! ?! but they all use this guy too.

I appreciate the advice given. I might look for someone that does their own AI. Or maybe I should just take the class? It's more being the little guy that upsets me. If I am not worth their time, why don't they tell me what it will take to make it worth it. I am okay with that. I am not asking them to do me a favor, but asking them to provide a business service.

Tad - thanks for that info. It does make sense that he can't have everything everyone wants - I should have though of his side of it before jumping all over him. And jersey's are less popular anyway

.

I dont have enough land to want to keep a bull fulltime for 1 cow. Nope, the steers are hard enough for me to handle. The only natural bulls that I have seen anywhere close to me are longhorns. Maybe some angus. Maybe that's what this AI guys does the most of - angus? Never thought of that. Maybe I should just ask him. Hum.....

Callieslamb · #13 09/14/10, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar

I would call around and check local vets.

We special ordered our semen, sexed from one of the top bulls, we had to order two straws at $50 per straw. We called our AI guy, told him the bull we wanted, he ordered it and called us when it was dropped off. We used one of the straws and our heifer took on the first try, so we sold the other straw to another small dairy woman. He said he would sell it for us but we had someone specially ask us for the extra straw if we didn't need it. If I hadn't special ordered then I would have just had to use the "bull on board", I think that is pretty standard. It was $35 for our AI guy by the way and he had to drive about 35 minutes to get to us.

I might try this - just have him order it for me. Then I can sell it to Blackwillowfarm....oh, she has her own private AI guy....right down the road..... How long will it keep?

I paid $60 for today - sexed semen. When I had my heifer bred earlier this year it was $40. We'll see if the $20 is worth the gamble.

francismilker · #14 09/14/10, 03:47 PM

Expecting to get any kind of break in the act (or hobby for most of us) I should say is like the quote from JFK, "the farmer is the only worker in america who buys at retail, sells at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."!

Actually, I think it's not a factor of the AI tech not wanting your business. It's the way society has gone and the way we are leaning. Most people would rather catch a big fish rather than a little one. If in fact you do think the guy is giving you 2nd class treatment you might even consider taking a chance at finding a way for live bull coverage or possibly a local dairy farmer as others have mentioned.

Whether it's A.I.ing, buying feed, or buying seed, the little guy seems to always get the short end of the stick and it's simply due to volume of business. I think me and you would be the same with our personal business of whatever talent we have. Would we rather sale "X" x 50? Or "X" x 1?

I do feel your frustrations though.

cowkeeper · #15 09/14/10, 04:17 PM

The thing is, a live cover is not going to guarantee you an A2 calf or a heifer calf, or probably the breed of your choice. The complaint is not that the tech didnt show up and breed the cow with semen from a bull of the right breed, it is that he didnt provide A2A2 semen (although he did use sexed semen?) The main thing is to get the cow bred, and IMHO it would be better to try to work with the company, because there may be no other way to get the cow bred. In our area, the sex selected must be ordered and paid for and moved to the tech's tank weeks ahead of time. And, they have no info as to which bulls are homozygous A2, so you may have to do as I have done, research online the Jersey bulls that are A2A2 and give the company a name or names of the bulls you would like to order.ck

Up North · #16 09/14/10, 05:14 PM

I may be mistaken but you are not going to find any mainstream US or Canadian AI companies that know what A2 is let alone test their bulls for that gene. I think you are going to have to look at New Zealand genetics. I would contact these folks (http://www.taurus-service.com/) and ask which bulls are a2/a2. They can ship semen too. We have mail ordered from them before. Great company. You would need a semen tank on your end. Could you order what you want and just have it shipped to your AI tech?

Madsaw · #17 09/14/10, 05:40 PM

From the sounds of things what you got was a $10 straw from a young sire. If the bull had no stats then its a youngsire that is being tryed out. You got jacked hard on that one. What company does the AI tech work for?
Check out Select sires, Accelerated genitics and a few other companies. They are bound to have techs that cover your area.
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Bob East Regional Sales Manager
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Bus:800-251-3049 ext 308 voicemail
Cell:540-337-9775

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Bus:517-546-0064
Cell:810-845-7604

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General Genetics Dealer
Sand Lake,MI
Bus:616-636-8876
Cell:616-443-7219

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Jake VanHoven District Sales Manager
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springvalley · #18 09/14/10, 06:19 PM

Callie, once again you need to move next door to me, my AI tec. lives three miles from me, I know how you feel, most things today is not geared to or for the small farmer. Just tell your AI guy your thoughts, don`t get nasty, but tell him you may have only one cow, but you think just as much of that one cow as someone with 100 cows. And most AI companies do know what the A2 is all about, they are not living under a rock. Mine can get A2 semen, but I need to make sure he has what I need. >Thanks Marc

ErinP · #19 09/14/10, 06:48 PM

To the bigger question of being the little guy--
Something to remember is that all of these guys (feed store, hay baler, etc.)get their bread and butter from the bigger operations. They HAVE to make them a priority.

DH works for a small feedlot. A thousand head in the feedlot, 500 head at the cow/calf ranch.
Just yesterday they had this exact same problem. They needed four trucks to haul some fats to the packer.

However, they were having trouble finding them because the BIG feedlot (100,000 head) about 70 miles away had them all busy. But those truckers would be foolish to put their primary account on hold in order to haul for a small-fry.

It has nothing to do with you being less important, and more to do with the fact that you don't make up the bulk of their own income...

randiliana · #20 09/14/10, 06:59 PM

Just a thought, the AI course sounds like a good idea, but if you are only doing one or 2 cows a year, you are going to have a hard time doing the job, and remembering what all you need to remember. Not saying you can't/shouldn't do it, just something to think about.

As far as the AI tech goes, sounds to me like he did his job, he showed up there and bred the cow. You didn't ask him for any specific bull, just gave him some info on what you wanted. And, by the sounds of it, you don't know exactly what you got. I would at least phone him up and ask him for the name of the bull and some more info on him. He may not be proven, but he should still have some statistics on him. As far as the A2 status, you may need to tell him what it is. I presume since you didn't say, that he did breed her with sexed semen?