Holy Crap #2...keeps getting worse

stifflej · #1 08/26/10, 07:59 AM

Well, I had a "real" farmer stop by to give me some advice on the new calf yesterday, and to check on the other cows to give his opinion if he thought they were pregnant or not, and how old he thought they were. If you remember from the first "Holy Crap" thread, the 4 I bough in the spring were to be about 6-8 month old heifers. Of the 4, he thought one was about 3 year old cow, two were 2 year old cows (one was the one that just delivered) and one was a younger heifer, of which he didn't think any were within 6 weeks of delivering if they are pregnant. So that really is only a little disappointing to hear the ages, but not really anything to get to excited about. He also mentioned the mom looked to be in really bad shape, and seems that she did not push out all the afterbirth. He recommended getting her a hormone shot to see if she will push it out. He also said she is not producing enough milk for the calf, and the calf needs pulled ASAP. Looks like i will be bottle feeding for a while (keep in mind I didn't want any bred cows, let alone a calf, or ever worse one that will need bottle fed). So, I could use any advice you can give for bottle feeding the calf. He said it should be ok to feed morning and evening, and to not feed to much milk at first (which I also read here). The calf will be 10 days old when we switch him, how much should I start out with? At what age should I start to give him some hay and calf starter grain? How big of a pen do I need for him in my barn while he is bottle feeding? Thanks for all the help.

tailwagging · #2 08/26/10, 10:16 AM

At the dairy we started giving them hay and grain on the 3rd day. not that they ate much but it was there.
I have read that you don't need to give cows a clean up shot. but You may want to get a vet out to do it anyways and then she might start giving enough milk for the calf.

lasergrl · #3 08/26/10, 10:29 AM

You could sell the calf as a bottle baby. I know I would buy him if you were closer.

Madsaw · #4 08/26/10, 10:31 AM

If the cow still has not cleaned. either have a vet remove them or try to use the shots. Also give her some penicillin. A uterus infection will also affect the milk production.
With out seeing pics of the cattle, I am still thinking someone dumped a bunch of dexters off on you.
Bob

cowkeeper · #5 08/26/10, 11:42 AM

If these cattle look small enough you thought you were buying heifers, they could well be Dexters. The calf looks Dexter and is a nice one. If the guy let them run wherever and whatever etc, as you mentioned in your first thread, it seems likely they could all be bred, and if he is a buyer/seller perhaps they came to his place already bred to a Dexter. If the newly calved cow is in bad shape and hasnt cleaned, and you need to know about the health/preggo status of the others, a vet call would be a wise investment. These could be decent cattle that just need a little TLC. Knowing what you have, and giving them the care they require now, you might be able to make a good sale on them and go buy what you were after in the first place.ck

springvalley · #6 08/26/10, 01:54 PM

If the cow is in bad shape, maybe you could give her some grain. And a shot on penicillin sure won`t hurt anything, vets. up our way are not so fast to go in and clean cows like they use to. It just pains me that people take advantage of newbies alot of times. If the cattle can be fed to get back in shape I guess it could be worse. >Thanks Marc

Callieslamb · #7 08/26/10, 04:18 PM

Feed the calf 2 qts of milk at a time. He will think he needs more - he doesn't. Give him water and calf manna or starter grain. Feeding him 2x a day will be fine. As you change his milk to MR - watch closely since he might scour. If you really don't want to mess with him, I would advertise him on craigslist.

willow_girl · #8 08/29/10, 06:58 PM

That guy who came over today? Take him with you the next time you go to buy a cow!

CCCJerseys · #9 08/29/10, 09:22 PM

StiffleJ,
Do what willow girl said and offer plenty of cash for his services.
I do not know if you got taken or if you simply did not know the right questions to ask.
And buy some books with pictures and study the internet.
Learning cattle is a lifelong study in many ways. And it is NOT cheap.
Don't be discourged just learn from your mistakes and make the best of it.
You can do it if you want it and/or need it bad enough.
Hang in there.

stifflej · #10 08/30/10, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

That guy who came over today? Take him with you the next time you go to buy a cow!

I would like that, but think he is to busy, although he said he would look for me in the spring for some good calves. He runs the local feed mill so he knows the good and the bad in the business.

stifflej · #11 08/30/10, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCJerseys

StiffleJ,
Do what willow girl said and offer plenty of cash for his services.

I sure did, plus I get all my supplies from him (food included)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCJerseys

I do not know if you got taken or if you simply did not know the right questions to ask.

I don't feel I got taken, just new to all this, and didn't ask right questions. I also think this fellow really didn't know. He has no method of keeping track other than trying to memorize his cattle, and at his age, and number of cattle, I don't think any one can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCJerseys

And buy some books with pictures and study the internet.
Learning cattle is a lifelong study in many ways. And it is NOT cheap.

Yes, been doing this for about 3 years now, and this forum has taught me a ton as well. My biggest issue is I still do not know how to look at a cow and tell if it is doing well. I know the ones I am raising now put on a lot of weight since I got them, but he said they still look poor (I thought they looked good), just don't know what to look at when looking.
Don't be discourged just learn from your mistakes and make the best of it.
You can do it if you want it and/or need it bad enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCCJerseys

Hang in there.

I try not to get to worked up about it, it added some work to my day I could have done without, but when I am older and gray(er) I will be able to tell the grand kids about it...

olivehill · #12 08/30/10, 07:16 AM

Make it worth his time and I bet he won't mind helping you out.

In the long run paying him to help you get what you want and what's not going to give you headaches will be much cheaper than the alternative. Good luck with this batch in the meantime, I hope the little guy pulls through for you.

stifflej · #13 08/30/10, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callieslamb

Feed the calf 2 qts of milk at a time. He will think he needs more - he doesn't. Give him water and calf manna or starter grain. Feeding him 2x a day will be fine. As you change his milk to MR - watch closely since he might scour. If you really don't want to mess with him, I would advertise him on craigslist.

When if ever do I increase his milk?

CCCJerseys · #14 08/30/10, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stifflej

I don't feel I got taken, just new to all this, and didn't ask right questions. I also think this fellow really didn't know. He has no method of keeping track other than trying to memorize his cattle, and at his age, and number of cattle, I don't think any one can.

The fact that you, as a newbie, understand this, makes me feel that you will get quite good at this.
I do realize that some people do not keep track of their animals and keep good records. Usually they just put an ear tag with a number on it in each cows ears and then keep a calf book. Herds of 500 of more are kept staight by this method. Simple and not madatory.
Your little calf looked pretty good no matter if it is a Dexter or a larger breed.
It would be such a help for you if you can find someone willing to help you develope an eye for cattle. But I know that is not always an option.
It you have RFD TV watch the auctions.
It is great that you are and have been studying. I will be rooting for you.

randiliana · #15 08/30/10, 09:19 AM

Well, here are a couple good sites for Body Condition scoring. Useful to us all, but they should help you train you eye a bit.
http://www.thebeefsite.com/articles/...ring-beef-cows

http://www.cowbcs.info/photogallery.html

http://www.aragriculture.org/livesto...on/default.htm

sammyd · #16 08/30/10, 09:26 AM

you don't increase his milk. 2 qts twice a day is all he should need. Keep fresh clean water and good starter grain in front of him and he should take right off.

Callieslamb · #17 08/30/10, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stifflej

When if ever do I increase his milk?

I don't. The only thing I do differently is when they are really young- I feed them the same amount spread over 3 feedings. If you have free milk available you can feed him as much as he wants when he is older - like 2 months. At 2 1/2 months, I start to wean mine. I feed them once a day for a couple of weeks, then - no more. I plan on having them weaned by 3 months. My dad used to wean at 2, but I have plenty of free milk from my milk cow.

Keep grain and water in front of him at all times - hay if he is inside and can't graze. Be sure he is eating grain, water and hay well before weaning.

stifflej · #18 08/30/10, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callieslamb

Feed the calf 2 qts of milk at a time. He will think he needs more - he doesn't. Give him water and calf manna or starter grain. Feeding him 2x a day will be fine. As you change his milk to MR - watch closely since he might scour. If you really don't want to mess with him, I would advertise him on craigslist.

How much calf manna should I give him, and should I mix it with anything?