What are my options with my hay?

Callieslamb · #1 07/19/10, 10:33 PM

I am waiting for my hay guy to come and make my 1st cutting of hay still. Here they usually do it at the end of May.....

This happened last year with a different baler too. It really isn't the baler's fault. I am the little guy ( 4 acres)..and there has been a significant chance of rain every 2-3 days most of the summer. We haven't gotten it, but the chance has been there. The one week there was no forcasted rain- the hay guy's dad died.

It's worthless hay to me now. I might be able to trade for some better hay from the guy that bales it for me...but I am not sure. It is possible to just have it chopped up and thrown back on the ground. it is almost 5 feet tall. would that be too much grass? Would it possibly kill the grass that is there?

I might. MIGHT be able to trade 4 small sq bales of much better hay for each large round bale they bale here...MIGHT. but I'd like to know some opinions on what my options are. If they don't get it off soon, I won't have a 2nd cutting.

I really didn't want to have to buy hay this year. We even fertilized it so we could have better......

Apryl in ND · #2 07/19/10, 11:49 PM

I am in the exact same boat. We have about 15ish acres that the neighbors hay every year. We moved here 2 years ago and prior to that they hayed it for themselves. Now that we are here, they hay it all and we split it. I offered to PAY them to do it this year hoping that since I'd be a paying customer that they'd do it how I wanted it done. Now I see they are busy cutting all of their hundreds of acres and mine still has not been cut. I tried to strongly hint that dairy goats and dairy cows (though none will be lactating until next March) need a high quality, early cut hay, but apparently they didn't get the hint. I am seriously considering just buying all of my hay from somebody who did it right. But I think it's pretty stupid to BUY hay when we have 15 acres of our own hayfield. Oh and the season is too short up here for more than one cutting. So, I know how you feel. I don't want to come across as being rude because we're new here and they're our only neighbors within 4 miles. I wish I could afford my own equipment!

Cat · #3 07/20/10, 01:23 AM

I wouldn't throw it back on the ground, I'd go ahead and bale it and use it as bedding or mulch in the garden, etc. Some people buy low-protein hay for their horses, or to use as filler. While it might be next-to-useless for you, you might still be able to find someone interested in it. I'm actually considering using some bad CRP bales as mulch to plant brome into this winter. We don't get much moisture, though, (19" annual although I don't think we've gotten anywhere close to that in 8 years!!) so every little bit on top of the soil helps tremendously!!

francismilker · #4 07/20/10, 06:19 AM

In my area we have faced a lot of that same problem this year due to rain. (lots of rain!)

I definetely wouldn't cut it and leave it on the ground. If you do that, you're asking for some horrible hay the next time you cut it as the first cutting will take a while to deteriate and will be raked up next time and get baled in with the good stuff.

If it were me, I'd continue on and bale the stuff. It may not have much nutritional value and may be full of weeds and stems, but it is hay. You can use it as filler, mulch, or bedding if the cows won't eat it. But, believe me; if they get hungry enough, they'll eat it.

Callieslamb · #5 07/20/10, 06:59 AM

I guess mine didn't get very hungry last year. Okay. We will try to get it baled. My baler likes the big round bales - which I can't move around. He bales his half in large and mine in the small. I am going to try to trade him - maybe not having to bring all that extra equipment here will help him agree. Does 4 for 1 sound okay? I'd rather get 5 for one, but this hay is BAD.

francismilker · #6 07/20/10, 07:11 AM

I'd say if the hay is that bad from a custom baler's perspective you would be getting a good deal to just get the grass(weeds) off the field. Whatever you can get for it in trade is a plus. The value of getting the stuff off the field is worth quite a lot because it doesn't seem that what the baler gets in trade is very saleable. Being such a small plot to bale it would usually be simply a "good guy" deal to help someone out in order me and my partner to do something like that. A custom baler can't make any money on something that small unless it is alfalfa small square bales that are pretty high quality.

BlackWillowFarm · #7 07/20/10, 08:08 AM

Callie, have you tried posting an ad on Craigslist? I posted an ad once to get my small field cut and baled and I had several responses right away. I never said what kind of deal I wanted, just that I needed a field cut and baled. You can work out the details when you talk to them in person. Too bad about your hay guy. It's pretty frustrating when you have to depend on someone else and they don't come through for you. At least if you get it cut now, you could get one more cutting this year if the weather holds.

agmantoo · #8 07/20/10, 08:45 AM

Callieslamb

I read above that you are from Michigan and obviously subject to far more severe Winters than me. The probability remains that you haying situation will remain year after year. Giving your hay away is slowly reducing the nutrients of the field unless you are spending money on fertilizer. It is too late this year but I suggest you try to determine how to use what forage you have without baling. For now, you need to get the excess growth removed as others have stated. In the future you do need a means of timely cutting the field to keep growth in check. You should be able to feed your animals off the field and reserve some of the Fall growth for grazing until snow gets too deep for the cattle to push it aside to get to the forage. Doing so will reduce the hay requirements. You can purchase that and have hay that was baled under proper conditions. I have spoken to a person in Michigan that successfully does rotational grazing in all but the dead of Winter so I know that it is achievable a great part of the year.

sammyd · #9 07/20/10, 08:52 AM

With stuff that tall even using a forage chopper to blow it back on the field would make a pretty thick mat. I'd bale it off.
My brother in laws folks only made one crop a year, usually in late July/early August.
You get lots of volume. Add a little extra bean meal or something in your grain ration to cover and it should be all right.

bruce2288 · #10 07/20/10, 01:34 PM

I don't know what kind of grass you have but rest assured there will be some feed value in the hay. Many cattle men in the Nebraska sandhill have winter pastures that are never cut and graze the cattle on the dead grass through the winter, usually supplying a protein supplement. Getting all hay up in prime condition is always a problem especially in wet years. There is a saying around here concerning less than prime quality hay. "It's better than a snow bank"

springvalley · #11 07/20/10, 02:20 PM

I`m with bruce and Sam on this, just get it done and maybe better next cutting. Bruce I rememeber the saying as "I`ts better than a snow ball" same difference I guess. Good luck.>Thanks marc

Callieslamb · #12 07/20/10, 06:46 PM

I would love to rotational graze most of the year. I will still need hay for those days they can't be outside. Do they eat it after the frost kills it? I didn't notice my cows eating much of the dried grass after it frosted, but there wasn't much grass after last year's drought for them to eat on. Is it okay to graze them in fall on the hayfields? I am not sure how to accomplish almost year-round grazing with what grasses I have. They seem slow to green up in spring and fast to yellow up in fall. I don't get the worst of winter, I am about 10 miles from Lake Michigan. Last year was my first year here and I thought it much easier than an Iowa winter.

We were told to fertilize after the 1st cutting - which hasn't happened yet. We limed last year in preparation for fertilizing this year.

I can try Craigslist. I probably should. The advantage with this hay guy is that he has other hay available to trade. So I could work it all out with just him. i don't want to have to move the hay off my fields unless it's going into my barn. Moving hay around by myself is getting to be too hard for this old body. As long as there is a 50% chance of rain predicted, no one is going to be baling it. Wish I had some good stuff to sell to others this winter.....

I really appreciate the advice. I am totally in the dark here.

bruce2288 · #13 07/20/10, 11:28 PM

Callie, I don't know what kind of livestock you run. One of the keys in feeding low quality roughage is protein. Low protein feeds move slowly through the digestive system because they are digested slowly. Supplying additional protein increases digestability and it moves faster therefore the critter can eat more. The opposite is also true. You have observed the result yourself ie very loose manure in the spring when the grass is very high in protein. Food is actually going through the cows to fast then and again not efficient digestion.
Yes they eat it after it has froze. Nov, Dec, Jan,ect. Nebraska winter would be much like Iowa, maybe not as much snow and probably more wind. On ranches I am talking about hay meadows are often grazed during calving season. Fall grazing in my opinion has the most risk. The grasses need some time to build up and store carbohydrates in the root system before going dormant. The reason why in my climate cattle are taken off summer pastures in early Oct.

Allen W · #14 07/21/10, 08:51 AM

bruce2288 has given a good explanation on protein supplementation. A cow will eat some pretty sorry hay if she doesn't know there is any better. Calves are more picky and need better hay, especially smaller calves.

Callieslamb · #15 07/21/10, 10:24 AM

So, if I feed poor hay, I need to also up their protein? With something like alfalfa pellets? Or just grain - what percentage of protein? (they get 12-14% now) Anything else I could feed? Last year, I had 2 six-month old calves so maybe that was part of the problem. The heifer, I sold and the steer is heading to his final reward before frost so it will just be the milk cow and her will be 4-5 month old calf for this winter.

If I have it right, I can graze my cows on the hay fields in spring but not the fall? Maybe I can do without the 'first' cutting that way and just got for the 2nd? I need to look for the best grasses to plant - any hints on that from anyone?

We had way to much snow for them to find any grass last year - 3 feet in one storm. It stayed around all winter, but was reduced several times to just over a foot. We didn't see the ground for 4 months. We get the lake effect dumping. I didn't have an outdoor shelter for them so when it was below zero or snowing, or wet and blowing - I put them in the barn which is when they got the good hay.

I realize my hay guy isn't making money on me. That's why I offered to just pay him for baling mine this year. I am not asking him to not benefit. He still wanted to go 1/2s.

sammyd · #16 07/21/10, 11:41 AM

Some folks choose to "background" their beefers over winter, which is basically giving them enough to maintain, corn stalks, straw, poor quality grass hay are typical forages with just enough grain to keep them around.

We normally switch to a 14% grain if the steers are over 600 pounds and on pasture.But will run a 16% through their first winter when they are on hay.
a 16% grain would work fine for the winter. You could get some extra bean meal or protein pellets (think our mill has them at 39%) to topdress the grain if you feel the animals aren't performing well.

Around here the thing used to be to bale first crop and pasture the second.

bruce2288 · #17 07/21/10, 01:12 PM

Let me explain what I meant. You can indeed graze the hay meadow in the fall( which is a pretty broad subjective time period). What can be problamatic and decrease the vigor of your grasses is grazing heavily right up to a killing frost and dormancy. This time frame will vary with your climant and types of grasses. After your grass is dormant you can graze with no ill effect. Say mid November. You can also damage grass by grazing new spring growth too hard and too long,now I have really confused you.
I find here we sometimes have miscommunication on terminology. To me grain is corn or oats ect. Sammyd when you say grain are you talking about a complete feed?
Some protein supplements available leafy alfalfa, soybean meal, alfalfa pellets, dried distillers pellets, cotton seed cake. Kind of like fertilizing ground it is hard to know what to supplement if you don't know what you are feeding. After your hay is up ask the local coop or feed mill if they can send in a hay sample and get it tested. A hay probe is the best way to get random samples from big round bales.

ErinP · #18 07/21/10, 01:34 PM

We had about 20 big rounds off our meadow last summer that had pretty much the same problem.

They were rained on multiple times before our baler finally showed up to bale them. (Probably the same reason, actually. We're the little guys. lol) FORTUNATELY, we only cut the hay in the first place to get a fresh start for the meadow and get some of the dead stuff out of there.

Friend of ours backgrounds some cattle so we just gave him our bales to run through his grinder as filler.
It'll come back to us in some way or another, I'm sure.

So far as using low-quality hay, go for it. (So long as it's not moldy, too dusty, etc. You might regret that...) As others have said, just get it tested so you know what you need so far as supplementation.

We ran a ranch for a number of years in Nebraska that didn't hay at all in the winter. (Southwestern... Our winters are usually pretty open and don't get as cold as they do in northern...)
The cattle lived on pasture until late October when we brought them in to wean calves and kicked the cows out on corn stalks.
They got mineral and protein supplements, and corn stalks.

sammyd · #19 07/21/10, 03:42 PM

when I say grain I mean a mix,

Callieslamb · #20 07/21/10, 10:46 PM

I get the too heavy grazing in spring issue. That's actually why we are pasturing partly on the neighbor. My grass wasn't coming in as well as his weeds. He has bad pasture, but there was enough of it to keep them busy.

How do you get them to EAT bad hay? If it's all stemmy and tough I can't see them even eating it at all. They get a 14% mixed grain/mineral ration right now. I need the feed for a dairy cow, not beef.

I have seen the cattle in Nebraska grazing in the corn stalks. I wish they did it here. My neighbor has 20 acres next to me in corn. When they harvest the stalks are put back into the soil though.

I have been reading through some recommended grazing sites and have learned a lot today. I think I need to completely reseed my hayfields. To rotational graze totally is going to be impossible for me. I don't have my own hay equipment to do the parts that don't get grazed enough. And I KNOW the baler I have now won't come out for less acreage than I have now.

Great info here. Thanks!