gray green diarrhea

Trisha in WA · #1 07/06/10, 10:35 PM

I have a 3 month old half Jersey half Lowline Angus steer calf that has gray green diarrhea today. He is still on his mom and is eating alfalfa and is on a fresh lush pasture each day. He didn't seem interested int he alfalfa tonight and he doesn't seem to be taking as much milk as he normally does. It's hard to tell exactly how much milk he is getting, but mom has been giving a bit more than normal for the last 3 milkings...though he does seem to go through ups and downs in his intake, and last week he was drinking a LOT!
Any thoughts on what might be going on? He is not very tame, so hard enough to catch that I have not taken his temp. If I need to treat him, I will have to come up with some kind of home made squeeze, but I certainly can do that.
Thanks in advance.

Trisha in WA · #2 07/07/10, 01:11 PM

He is the slightest bit better this morning...meaning not ALL of his BM is watery...there is some at the very last that is getting some substance to it.
Anyone with any ideas please?

topside1 · #3 07/07/10, 01:27 PM

Trisha if that happened at my place the steer is usually eating something different. Usually forced to because of drought, less of one type grass verses another, cyclic dying off of some grasses and the seasonal growing of others. He's probably also getting less milk and eating more greens...That's my guess...Topside

tinknal · #4 07/07/10, 01:37 PM

If he is just starting to eat fresh grass it could be just his digestive system sorting it self out. How is he acting?

Trisha in WA · #5 07/07/10, 01:54 PM

Topside, I am sort of hoping that is what is going on. The weather had been pretty wet here and grass has been growing very well. So, they are on a fresh patch everyday, which means the possibility of something new being introduced pretty regularly too.
My biggest concern is the absolute liquid nature of his manure. DH saw him at the water trough this morning drinking well, so I am pleased about that. I don't want him to get dehydrated especially now as the weather is going to get fairly hot this week.

tinknal, He has been out on pasture for about a month now. He is just a little less spunky that his normal self, but still has plenty of energy...especially when we tried to catch him last night. I decided it was too stressful for him and we let him be.

topside1 · #6 07/07/10, 02:24 PM

Trisha I have two small paddocks that I force my steers to eat, very rich grass. Whenever they are stationed in the small paddocks their poo becomes very runny within 24 hours...Just thought I'd mention it...Topside

Trisha in WA · #7 07/07/10, 03:18 PM

Thanks topside. I am thinking that the last sections may have been pretty rich and that is what brought this on. I have left them in for today to see if he gets better by just being off the grass. If so, then I won't worry too terribly much if he gets runny again once back out on grass.
Thank you very much.

Trisha in WA · #8 07/08/10, 10:14 AM

I kept him in yesterday and he actually seems to be doing worse today. He doesn't want to eat the alfalfa and Dh had to make him get up at feeding time. He went back out there 10 minutes later and he was laying down again.
I am planning to give him some natural stuff I have, but I would like to know if anyone has any other thoughts about what is going on with this little guy. I also have a couple of packets of Resorb that I may try to give him...he isn't bottle fed, and he is big enough and strong enough that I am not sure I could tube him successfully. I will probably use a big syringe and at least get some in him.

Madsaw · #9 07/08/10, 10:30 AM

I hate to sound like a stuck record. Treat with a sulfa drug and maybe draxxin or nuflur. Could be a low grade pnuemonia stetting in. Summer is just as bad as cold damp fall weather for it.
Bob

linn · #10 07/08/10, 10:35 AM

You might try worming him. It won't hurt him unless he is seriously dehydrated. A sulfa drug along with worming could be just what he needs.

topside1 · #11 07/08/10, 11:01 AM

Trisha keep in mind that Madsaw Bob makes a living in the dairy business. I'm just a simple hobby farmer..Topside

bigmudder77 · #12 07/08/10, 11:35 AM

yes sounds like what all mine have got do what madsaw says

and dont worm him thats the worst thing to do when they have the runs and are not getting up worming them takes out the good and the bad and can just kill them fast

also dont worm them unless they HAVE worm im pretty sure thats what all the packages say ill check

also get them off that hay it might be too much protien for him right now get him a good first cutting thats lower protien but might be able to plug him up

also boost him with electrolits and maybe give him this one day responce stuff it makes there poop solid up and will let the drugs get more in to them the pills i gave mine i found whole in the poop so gave them all a package of one day responce and so far there poop and getting solid and i havnt seen any pills in the poop yet and there looking better so id try that if he is like mine and shooting out poop

DJ in WA · #13 07/08/10, 09:40 PM

My first thought would be coccidiosis. Occurs mostly in young animals who lack immunity, and there is more coccidia on the ground in wet conditions. Also the watery diarrhea is typical. You could take a sample of manure into your vet office and they can look under the microscope to diagnose.

As you can read in the links below, coccidiosis is a self-limiting disease as they develop immunity. They will get better without treatment. Unfortunately, they are shedding the coccidia in their feces all over and contaminate the surroundings so other young animals without immunity can get sick. Ideally you isolate this calf until no longer shedding the organism. You can treat other young animals with Corid from the feed store to prevent them getting sick, assuming they were exposed the same way this calf was.

Coccidia on the ground or pasture die better if allowed to dry. My cows/calves got sick once when I was feeding hay on the ground and the snow had melted with soupy conditions. I should have made sure to feed up off the ground. I recall the "projectile diarrhea", shooting out a foot or two from their behind.

http://cattletoday.info/coccidiosis.htm

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/21202.htm

Trisha in WA · #14 07/09/10, 05:05 PM

DJ based on the links you gave, I don't think that is what is going in here. We have only 3 cattle and they are not in an overly confined area and they are on fresh clean pasture every day. The symptoms are similar, but the potential for him to have contracted coccidiosis is very slim.
An update on him, his manure is getting firmer, though still not right and still grayish. His water intake is very good and his milk intake seems to have increased over night from the day before based on how much milk I got from Momma cow. I did turn them all out on pasture yesterday and today as it is much cooler in the shade of the trees than in the barn.

Madsaw · #15 07/09/10, 09:13 PM

Just slip him a few Sustain III tablets. Most of the time coccidious scours will be bloody or red brown in color. this is due to the bug attacking the linings in the intestine. I still would say it was a low grade pneumonia that is slowly going away. But faster you get him over it the faster he gains back what he lost.
Bob

Trisha in WA · #16 07/09/10, 09:33 PM

Thanks Bob. I have some Sustain III here on hand. No body around carries draxxin or nuflur. Are they by prescription only?

DJ in WA · #17 07/10/10, 12:20 AM

Trisha, I was focused on your statement, "My biggest concern is the absolute liquid nature of his manure." I guess I don't understand how pneumonia causes very runny manure. I don't think you need all the conditions you mentioned to get coccidiosis, but it's up to you to decide. A stool sample is fairly cheap if you have a vet nearby. Of course, if much time passes, there won't be any in the stool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madsaw

Just slip him a few Sustain III tablets. Most of the time coccidious scours will be bloody or red brown in color. this is due to the bug attacking the linings in the intestine. I still would say it was a low grade pneumonia that is slowly going away. But faster you get him over it the faster he gains back what he lost.
Bob

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/21202.htm

Quote:

The most characteristic sign of clinical coccidiosis is watery feces, with little or no blood, and the animal shows only slight discomfort for a few days. Severe infections are rare.

There can be blood in the stool without being visible (occult blood) which is detectable with a lab test on the stool. The grayness could be due to some blood that is not bright red.

bigmudder77 · #18 07/10/10, 07:51 AM

ya get some of his poop tested its not much money and yes when all mine had it there was no blood but the poop tested postive no blood just a greenish brown color and was like mud water

good luck i think mine are doing better for now they still got the water runs and i tried that sustain III tablets they dont seem to be working any

linn · #19 07/10/10, 09:02 AM

Here is an interesting article on evaluating manure. I don't know if it will help you out, but may help to eliminate a condition or two from the speculation on what is wrong with your calf.

http://www.das.psu.edu/research-exte...pdf/manure.pdf

Trisha in WA · #20 07/12/10, 10:14 AM

I gave him some Sustain III 48 hours ago and he is bright and energetic this morning. Ran up to eat his hay. We saw him chewing his cud yesterday too, which we had not seen in a few days.
Thank you all for your help. Normally I don't like using antibiotics, but I also know that diarrhea is a calf killer. It is so much easier to treat bottle calves at the first sign with natural stuff to nip it in the bud, but momma raised calves are much tougher to deal with (so I am learning). I still think whenever feasible, a momma raised calf is going to be better off though.
Anyway, thanks again.
Trisha