twins, but cow didnt clean out?

shagerman · #1 06/27/10, 10:33 PM

she is 5 years old. and a great cow, half holestein ,half black angus, this is her 3rd calfing session. and twins. they were born on wensday, and she has not cleaned out yet.. i am beginning to throw a fit about it, she is eating and drinking, just fine, but still no clean out,, i have called the vet and they said they dont clean cows out, and i questioned then about an infection. .tommorrow morning i will be on that phone again. either they will come out and give her antibiotics and clean her out or, youll see illinois in fireworks,, i know there is people out here thats better in this situation. and better at herd management. what would you do.

randiliana · #2 06/27/10, 10:40 PM

Well, in our beef herd, we don't worry about it unless the cow is acting off. If she's still eating and drinking we leave her alone. I've read numerous articles where they have found that manually cleaning them can cause more problems than it prevents. Now, having said that if you're really worried, you could give her a shot of Oxy LA or some such.

shagerman · #3 06/27/10, 10:51 PM

i am worried, and ive never had twins before either so i guess im upset over nothing. but just very worried i could lose her or the twins, and babys are popping this week, all done and had to pull one so im anxious i guess,

rancher1913 · #4 06/27/10, 10:52 PM

i've never worried about it unless they start acting sick. sometimes you can't justify the expense of a vet. my problem with twins has always been getting the mom to remember she has two calfs--one will get left behind and i end up bottle feeding it.

shagerman · #5 06/27/10, 10:55 PM

rancher, i believe that has just happened to me,. she took the bull calf to the pasture and left the little heifer, im gonna move her in the morning to momma. i fed her some jersey milk i bought for tonight,

francismilker · #6 06/27/10, 11:28 PM

As for the cleaning out, I don't usually worry provided the cow continues to eat, drink, and act healthy as others have mentioned.

With the twins, it's good to lock mama and both calves up close to the house in a corral where you can be sure she's not butting the "blacksheep" of the family into the next county everytime it tries to nurse. Once the calf is a couple of weeks old and solid on it's feet, it'll have enough gumption to figure out how to rob milk from here when the other is eating and do fine most of the time.

If she's letting them both nurse just not mothering one of them I wouldn't worry about it. As long as they're both getting fed it will work out.

genebo · #7 06/28/10, 06:24 PM

It may take up to two weeks for her to clean out. This is normal.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

jeff1981 · #8 06/28/10, 06:54 PM

we generally give 1 bottle IV CALDEX or 23% calcium within 24 hours of calving, this or a calcium drench seems to help them clean.

DJ in WA · #9 06/28/10, 08:24 PM

You might want to ask the vet why they don't want to mess with your cow. Surely they would prefer to make some money, so there must be a reason. I kind of admire vets or mechanics who tell me I don't need to give them money.

I realize vets aren't always right, but seems people don't give them any credit for spending 7 to 8 years of study, plus their attending conferences. keeping up on the latest schools of thought, and their experience. If we can just tell them what needs to be done, maybe they don't need any education.

I had a cow not clean a few years ago. Yes, you need to not mess with it. Of course, it doesn't look good, but the weight is good to have hanging to remove it WHEN it is ready. You might just tie a knot in it to keep it off the ground.

My concern was breeding the cow back, but she took first time AI.

Yes, you could save your cow and grab that thing and rip it out and see her bleed.

matt_man · #10 06/28/10, 09:29 PM

Watch for a bad smell and hit her with 5cc oxy. Our vet said that is can't hurt to hit them with some oxy right away if they have not cleaned.

We just had a jersey calve 2 weeks ago and she passed most of her placenta but still had some retained. She ended up with a bad uterine infection even though she passed the other part of placenta within 36 hours. I could tell she had an infection because she still was standing with her tail slightly out and she had a "dead" smell to her. Still treating the infection and hopefully she will rebreed but we shall see. She seems to be feeling better and her milk production is up the last few days.

shagerman · #11 06/28/10, 10:05 PM

ok lets see if i can answer everyone. she is feeding both calves. but she got the bull calve to follow the heifer i guess just wanted to hang out with me,, lol anyways she is with momma in the pasture. and momma knows exactly where both are, and no she is not being pushed away, but i had also seen the heifer sneek some from a maid cow that has her own calf, so either way she will be fed, momma passed part of it today. and if i am right she should have 2 inside her, she passed 1 this makes me feel somewhat better, and momma is eating everything in sight, for a treat i give her, beet pulp with molasses, i swear she would cross the desert for that stuff.she has a pasture to eat from there is hay in front of them and grain 1 time a day. she seems better today and looks better, maybe i was way to worried, like i said i had never had this happen before, so i was worried for her and her babies, and my investment also.

linn · #12 06/29/10, 06:44 AM

You can get stuff from the vet to give them if they don't clean out. We had a cow that had her calf early and didn't clean out. DH usually cleans our cows if they have trouble getting rid of the afterbirth. In this case the vet told him to wait, after a while the cervix shrinks and you can't get in there to clean, so the vet sold DH some stuff to flush out her uterus. Just keep checking the cow and calves. If the cow starts to stink and the calves start scouring, then you know she has in infection that she is passing on through the milk. We have had this happen several times over our years of raising cattle. It used to be a common practice to call the vet if a cow didn't clean herself, and believe me they didn't like to clean one out that had retained the afterbirth for several days, because it is a stinky mess. Now the vets tell you to wait.

willow_girl · #13 06/29/10, 07:24 AM

See if the vet will give you a shot of Lutalyse for her.

shagerman · #14 07/04/10, 01:41 PM

ok everyone, the twins will be 2 weeks old this coming wensday. a touch of the diahrhea, but other calfs are doing the same, momma is eating well and no smell as of yet, i am keeping a eagles eye on them, they are both drinking from mom, and others ,, they look good, but just not as energetic as some of the others, but they are smaller in size,

ozark_jewels · #15 07/04/10, 04:18 PM

A placenta not passing for over a week is not normal or healthy. Yes, it does happen, and no, it doesn't usually make the cow sick. But it adds greatly to the possibility of the cow not breeding back as fast, in some very bad instances, it can scar the reproductive organs and the cow may never breed back.
Not cleaning out is a very good sign of mineral deficiencies in any animal, especially selenium and/or copper, and calcium. This is a very good indication of a borderline deficiency, not a critical deficiency.
And yes, a stressful birth can cause a retained placenta in the healthiest of cows. In this case, oxytocin, selenium and calcium can be used to help her pass it. If the cow doesn't have enough calcium in her system, the oxytocin won't work.
But if it is a common occurence in a herd with normal labours, its probably a mineral deficiency.
A vet can manually deliver the placenta in worst case scenario, but no vet likes this job, it SMELLS.

shagerman · #16 07/07/10, 02:47 PM

ok, the vet was out, and she had delivered both placentas, i never seen the first one, she does have a infection, and he did admister a shot to help the uterus go down and he flushed her, the infection was not bad enough to warrant any of this, but i had it done anyways, in 2 to 3 weeks she will get another shot, ,, i am just bothered, that they would wait on something like this, but she has been eating everything in site, so i guess the way they look at it, is if she doesnt eat, then its a problem,,, i wouldnt even do this to my own kid, let alone a animal. the twins i have supplemented with milk replacer, seems to have pepped them up also,

shagerman · #17 07/07/10, 02:55 PM

mineral problem. i dont think so. i have mineral in a black container,w/molasses. for them and its free choice and i mix mineral and salt in with there grain.,,so i do not believe it is that part anyways, calcium, maybe, there is selinium in the mineral. farm and fleet bag.

ozark_jewels · #18 07/07/10, 04:19 PM

As you say, she had delivered both placentas, so no, I doubt you had a mineral problem. And twins is more likely to cause cleaning out problems than the usual single calf. I was mainly speaking to those who seem to think it is normal for a cow to not drop the placenta for 1-2 weeks. Dropping it in the first 24 hours after birthing is normal. Anything after that is retained and is certainly not normal or healthy and is indictive of a problem.
Good to hear all are doing well.

linn · #19 07/07/10, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

As you say, she had delivered both placentas, so no, I doubt you had a mineral problem. And twins is more likely to cause cleaning out problems than the usual single calf. I was mainly speaking to those who seem to think it is normal for a cow to not drop the placenta for 1-2 weeks. Dropping it in the first 24 hours after birthing is normal. Anything after that is retained and is certainly not normal or healthy and is indictive of a problem.
Good to hear all are doing well.

I am so glad you posted this. I was tempted, but didn't want to get burned. I so agree that it is not normal for a cow to retain the placenta. In our beef herd, if a cow doesn't clean herself in a day, DH gets her up and cleans her. The only times we don't do it is if he doesn't catch the cow before her cervix gets too small to get his arm in there to clean her. Those cows most always got stinking infection and their calves scoured. These were usually always cows that had trouble calving. We did have a Jersey that calved early, but wasn't dilated right. We had to get stuff from the vet to give her.

randiliana · #20 07/08/10, 09:33 AM

While a retained placenta is certainly not NORMAL, they do happen, and most of the time they are not a big problem for the cow. Out of about 120 cows, we might have 2 normal births that don't clean. Twins and preemies usually retain, however. In our own herd, we leave any RPs alone and monitor them. Most of the time we don't do anything for them, but when necessary we will give an injectable antibiotic (LA 200).

It is now NOT recommended to manually clean a cow out. It has been found that this does more damage than what the RP causes.

Some more info....
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in.../bc/111300.htm

http://www.partners-in-reproduction....d-placenta.asp

http://www.livestocktrail.uiuc.edu/d...?ContentID=163