Calf not growing right.....or is this normal for his breeding?

Cheryl aka JM · #1 04/02/10, 11:41 AM

I've got 4 dairy cross calves I got last April~ and one "Beef" calf I got last October. The Beef calf was given to me because he was failing to thrive in the pasture so they believed his mother was not giving enough milk. I got him drinking out of a bucket~ wormed him, gave him his vaccines, steered him, weaned him and put him out on pasture (hay for most of the winter) with the bigger calves. No grain since his weaning......but the bigger calves didn't get grain either.

He don't look like he's growing like the dairy calves did. He's tiny! He is younger than them......but I swear they were bigger~ taller than him at 6 months old! He is not real friendly so it's hard to get a pic of him~ but here he is standing with two of the year old dairy cross calves
Calf not growing right.....or is this normal for his breeding? - Cattle

Calf not growing right.....or is this normal for his breeding? - Cattle

Is he not growing right? Or am I expecting too much growth out of him considering he went into the winter months as a fresh weanling?

agmantoo · #2 04/02/10, 12:19 PM

Cheryl aka JM
Are you providing a vitamin/mineral supplement free choice to the cattle?

If this is a recent picture I am surprised your pasture is as thin as it is. Have you had a soil test?

Stress can be a major factor in the performance of any animal. Stress probably set the steer back and it may never see its full potential. His configuration looks rather good in the pic. I cannot judge his weight from the pic. Because I am aware of how the lack of nutrition and supplements can impact is the reason that I want a calf born into an environment where its needs are met entirely during the period it is with me. It is possible that your calf will get some compensatory gain as your pasture improve. If it does not show a growth spurt then I would expect it to remain an under performing steer.

Cheryl aka JM · #3 04/02/10, 12:51 PM

I have two mineral blocks out free choice all the time. But I know the herd he came from only gets minerals when the owner wants to lure them into the truck to move them from pasture to pasture (the man who rents his pasture to the herd owner told me that).

My pasture looks pretty much like everyone elses does right now. But there are a few that look better than all the rest. My neighbor said it was because I have more bermuda grass and it greens later than the johnson grass he has, and we are on a very rocky area with poor soil to start with. I did get a soil sample done this year. Southern States is supposed to be sending a truck out when the weather is right to put 2.8 tons of 21-8-14 on the pasture. Then later in the year they are to put on a product called "Graze on" to control the burdocks. Then this fall the plan is to lime it~ and I should not need as much fertilizer next spring.

We are discussing and trying to figure out the rotational grazing idea~ but we sort of tried it last year when the hay did not get cut. So the entire pasture went into winter in fine full grass. By about January all that was standing was brushy/straw stuff and the cows went through a lot of hay despite having the uncut hay in the field. My neighbor tells me there was nothing nutritionally available left in what was out there and the cows would have starved if I'd tried to make them eat what was out there without supplementing with hay. So I purchased and made sure there was a bale of hay out all winter~ and there still is a bale out there. If they finish it up before the pasture greens I'll give them one of the other two bales I'm trying to hold out for the horses.

Cheryl aka JM · #4 04/02/10, 12:53 PM

More info about that pasture~ yes thats a recent picture from last night.

lmnde · #5 04/02/10, 01:21 PM

Could he be from one of the miniature cattle breeds? If so, too bad you had him "steered"...

Cheryl aka JM · #6 04/02/10, 01:25 PM

No~ When his parents are in my neighbors pasture I can see the herd. They are definitely not mini's. My husband speculated that maybe he was a genetic oops the mini breeders might want.....he is darned cute looking just like a tiny buffalo! But......I steered him so his only value is beef......and he doesn't seem to be making much beef!

cowkeeper · #7 04/02/10, 05:43 PM

Hi Cheryl, Your initial question was "is this normal for his breeding?" And yet it is a neighbors herd and you can see what the cows normally produce. Do you suspect there is dwarfism in the herd, or maybe a Dexter bull around? Is the sire the bull in the neighbors herd, or was the cow bought in already bred? ck

Cheryl aka JM · #8 04/02/10, 07:40 PM

It's actually not the neighbors herd. They rent the neighbors pasture and have not come back around to this pasture since last November so I don't know what the other calves born at the same time look like now. I got the calf because I am friends with the neighbor who rents the pasture out~ I don't actually know the owners of the parent herd at all and only see them when they happen to be on my neighbors pasture.

~Tomboy~ · #9 04/02/10, 10:57 PM

Hi Cheryl,
I can't say if this has anything to do with your steer, however the Angus breed has been hit pretty hard the last few years with genetic defects.
One of the new possible defects that they are looking at is nicknamed "Itty Bitty", the name explains it all. Calves that are small and never grow to full size.
Might just be what you have.

Barb

Cheryl aka JM · #10 04/03/10, 08:16 AM

hhhmmm...He could have angus in him I suppose. As I recall the herd did have a lot of all black cattle in it. But I'm afraid I didn't pay enough attention to notice if the bull was black or not. I didn't even notice this calf over there~ the day the herd was being moved off my neighbor told me about this calf and asked if I wanted to try to raise him as the herd owner was planning on sending the cow to auction since her calf was not thriving.

mamahen · #11 04/03/10, 10:28 AM

I, too, received one of those unthrifty calves. The farmer gave momma 2 chances to raise a good calf. Both times they were runty. Momma was big, calves didn't grow fast/big. he thought it was not enough milk. We got ours at 2 months old. She was probably 90 lbs or so?

She never did get BIG. And never really filled out beefy. She was a hereford/simmentel, something else mix. Basically a beef "mutt"

genebo · #12 04/03/10, 05:52 PM

All breeds have dwarfism in them to some extent. Some breeds have many different forms of it. It sounds like you might have gotten a dwarf calf. Some dwarves are healthy and prosper, they just don't grow as big. Others have faults that make them unhealthy, and some don't survive for long.

Even if he isn't a dwarf, he may not grow at the same rate as his brothers. Individual differences.

His slower growth isn't a total loss, though. He's actually eating less than your faster growing calves. It's all proportional. When you take him to the sale barn, his smaller size will often attract a higher sale price per hundredweight that his heavier pasturemates.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

agmantoo · #13 04/03/10, 07:58 PM

Cheryl aka JM
Have you ever considered sowing some legumes in with the bermuda? Something is lacking in your pasture IMO. You are at least a zone warmer than where I live. I realize bermuda comes in later but you are missing a great opportunity due to your location to improve your length of grazing/growing temperatures. This was taken two days ago in growing zone 7 on pasture that has not had commercial fertilizer in 3 years. The soil has been limed. These cattle are moving left to right in their rotation. The strip already grazed has fed the entire herd for 3 days. There are 92 cows and heifers plus approximately 47 feeder calves of various ages.
Calf not growing right.....or is this normal for his breeding? - Cattle

Cheryl aka JM · #14 04/04/10, 07:20 AM

Sure is a pretty pasture!

We are actually in zone 7 too~ (North AL) but I've only had this property for 2 1/2 years~ it's the first time I've ever owned property like this......and the advice I was getting on how to care for that pasture the first two years from a different neighbor I now know was...not as knowledgeable as I was led to believe.

I bought it in Sept 07~ I didn't have any livestock at the time so I allowed a neighbor to hay it for his use in Oct 07. He ran his cattle on it Winter 07/08. Hayed it for his use twice in 08. Ran his cattle on it winter 08/09. Spring 09 I got some calves and explained that I would need at least half the hay from that field for Winter 09/10. Neighbor explained that he did not need any hay because he had plenty from the last year and I would have to pay him to cut my hay for me. I wasn't happy but didn't know what else to do. He cut the hay in Spring~ didn't get it baled and left it on the field. Ran his cattle on the field until Sept 09 when he took them off.......I thought so he could cut the hay for me......he didn't....When I finally got an answer on when he planned to cut the hay he told me he didn't have time.

So I called another neighbor who hooked me up with his hay guy who told me it was too late to cut the hay ~Late November at this point~ so I ran my cows horses on it winter 09/10 and purchased hay all winter. The neighbor who did not cut my hay and did not need any hay because he had hay off my field from the last two years left killed his entire goat herd in Feb 10 from feeding them old, black, molded hay. Apparently his cows can eat that....but they look poor in my opinion.

Finally spring 10. The field has not been fertilized in at least 3 years~ neighbor who is now helping me thinks it's been a lot longer than that. I bush hogged down the standing straw/brush in March. Planning to put down 2.8 tons fertilizer, then Graze On, then Lime. Thinking I would like to over seed with something but not sure what. My neighbor tells me the field has been neglected~ but that also we have bermuda grass on very poor rocky soil from being up the side of a "Mountain" (I'm not local.....but I think it's a big rocky HILL!).

What kind of legume would you suggest and how would you suggest I broadcast it?

agmantoo · #15 04/04/10, 10:48 AM

Cheryl aka JM

As you now recognize you were giving your farm away a bale at time and getting nothing in return. Happens all to frequently. Hence forth give none of the forage away. If you do not need it rotary mow the excess and let it decompose on the soil to build the nutrients. I read that you had fertilizer ordered and I did not comment. I voice my opinions all to ofter and some folks do not like my candid approach. I know that the farm store told you what to do but did you stop to realize they are selling product and product that is more profitable is often sold first. I would not have applied the fertilizer first. I would have put the lime on. I would still put the lime on. It takes longer to get the lime to work and the lime is what lets the fertilizer work on acid soil. I would not put the Graze On either. You can rid yourself of the undesirable weeds and not kill what little legumes you may have with proper grazing and rotary mowing. If I were you I would spend the herbicide money on buy some Arrowleaf and Alice (not Alyce) clover ASAP and broadcast it in the bermuda immdeidately. Let me know your thoughts.

Cheryl aka JM · #16 04/04/10, 12:34 PM

I'm already committed to the fertilizer~ they've not broadcast it yet but I made the commitment. I'll see if I can change it or if I can reduce how much~ they did note that the soil analysis said I needed a LOT more fertilizer per acre (it's only 10 acre) than they usually administer so I'll try calling tomorrow and see if it is too late to reduce how much of it I get. I was thinking of calling them tomorrow anyway and see if I could get seed added to the fertilizer and broadcast at the same time. I'll ask about the two you suggest.

As far as the graze on I'm not committed to that yet. I had a real problem with burrs in the cows, horses, dogs, goats......basically EVERYWHERE last year. I know the burrs are the seed for the plant.....so considering how they were EVERYWHERE last year they've been nicely seeded for this year! I was wondering if the field were cut next year if that would reduce the burrs by cutting the plants off before they go to seed (burrs). Last year it was not cut~ which would explain the many, many, many going to seed last year.

The lime they told me went on in the fall~ and that it wasn't going to cost nearly as much as the fertilizer, and that it would reduce how much fertilizer I needed next year.

I'm learning. Slowly. And I really thought the other neighbor was helping me out by keeping my pasture grazed and cut until I needed it. I didn't expect he'd just ditch me with no clue what to do next and no feed for last winter after I let him have the feed for two years. Giving the benefit of the doubt.....his field looks no better than mine.....and I've not seen him put any fertilizer down on his either. And.....if he'd known what he was doing I don't imagine he would have poisoned his own goats with moldy hay. So I don't think he meant to ditch me...but he certainly gave me the impression he knew what he was doing at the time.

agmantoo · #17 04/04/10, 05:35 PM

Cheryl aka JM

Have your read any of the lengthy sticky on this forum on rotational grazing? If not, please do so. I am trying to establish my credibility and to get you to adhere to my suggestions as I would like to see you succeed. I realize I am just a bunch of typing on the internet and you are talking to a person at a supply store. You may not be wasting your resources by following his guide on your purchases but you certainly are not using them to the fullest. I am a farmer and I have experience. He is a store person and I do not know his experience. I function profitable at producing feeder calves. Where is his expertise? Since they have not delivered your order they should accept your cancellation for fertilizer if you are buying lime. They are getting your business but just loading from a different bin. They will not have the Alice clover but you can get it off the internet. Realize I have nothing to gain, I am just trying to help you.