question about bulls and breeds

darbyfamily · #1 02/14/10, 09:50 PM

I hear a lot of people talk about how dangerous bulls are, and I don't want to argue that point at all...I don't doubt that an animal can turn mean or hurt someone.

Here is my quandry...

we've been warned that having a mini jersey bull around for just 4 cows is not wise.. that jersey bulls can turn mean and hurt people and have caused a great many injuries.

I understand that different breeds are different... the Dexter bull we saw yesterday was really big...I mean he was pretty solid and probably one of the biggest Dexters I've seen.

The lady said "oh don't worry about him, I let my grandkids go out there with him, he won't hurt you"

I see pictures of little kids sitting on the back of a bull... mini jerseys even... and I hear talk of how sweet they are and how much like a puppy...

I guess I am just trying to make sense of it all and figure out what will work for us.

Our plan was/is to put the bull, if we buy him, in an adjoining pen so that we only put him with the girls when we choose to do so, or when we need to work in the back pasture we can put him in that pen so we don't have to worry.

I guess it really just depends on the bull, doesnt it? so what do you know of Mini Jersey bulls?

arcticow · #2 02/14/10, 10:10 PM

I grew up with Jersey bulls, and always was told 2 things... NEVER trust them and NEVER turn your back on them. Mini's are just smaller. If you get one, 1st thing on the way home, put a ring in his nose! It will let you keep him from crushing you into the ground when he gets you down. Turn the cows in to him, not him out with the cows. If possible, set up his pen so he can be fed and watered without going into the pen yourself. If you have a cow dog, never work the bull without the dog present, they can stop a disaster.

tinknal · #3 02/14/10, 10:21 PM

Check out the price of AI in your area and then sit down with pencil and paper and do the economics. I gaurantee you that you will see the folly of your ways. Not only will you be many dollars ahead with AI, you will be able to breed selectivly to the best bulls, and you will free up enough hay to add at least 1 more cow to your herd.

tyusclan · #4 02/15/10, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darbyfamily

The lady said "oh don't worry about him, I let my grandkids go out there with him, he won't hurt you"

I see pictures of little kids sitting on the back of a bull... mini jerseys even... and I hear talk of how sweet they are and how much like a puppy...

Disasters waiting to happen.

I agree with tinknal. Do AI and don't have the aggravation and danger of a bull on the place. Not only will you come out cheaper, you can sleep better at night.

I once borrowed a friend's bull to breed my cow. I was loading him in the trailer to take him back home and he turned on me and charged. I had a stockman's cane and caught him hard across the nose with it. He stopped, shook his head and came again. I caught him a second time across the nose, turned him and got him in the trailer. Even though the second lick turned him, it broke my cane. If he'd come a third time I'd have been up a very famous creek without a paddle.

stranger · #5 02/15/10, 06:43 AM

the Dexter bull we saw yesterday was really big...I mean he was pretty solid and probably one of the biggest Dexters I've seen.

The lady said "oh don't worry about him, I let my grandkids go out there with him, he won't hurt you"

that lady shouldn't be allowed to be around her grand kids til the bull is gone, someday the bull might be in a playful mood, and when bulls get playful, usually some human gets hurt. I have a big holstein that is about 1700 pounds, he likes to toss the manure spreader up and down with his head for kicks.

springvalley · #6 02/15/10, 07:16 AM

As I agree with everyone here, there some reasons to have a bull. When we started milking again a few years ago, we no intentions on having a bull. We only had 16 cows and had no need to have one. Well the guy came and A.I.ed the cows as they came in heat, and we thought all was great. Well some came back in heat the second and then the third times, we got the vet out to check cows. 1/3 of the cows were not bred, so I went and got a registered bull for the cows. It was nothing wrong with the cows, they all bred to the bull. I had to much money in these cows just to sell them because they were not bred. So some of these cows have been milking 17 months, and some not to bad for that amount of time. Kept the bull long enough to breed the cows and some heifers and sold him and lost no money on him. Yes I never had intentions to have a bull, but circumstances warrant it sometimes. (ps. I hope the grandma does not regret letting the kids play with the bull) Thanks Marc.

darbyfamily · #7 02/15/10, 09:12 AM

Thanks ya'll, I really do appreciate all the info and help

Turns out that for the cost of straws and about $50 per cow we can take them to Stillwater once a year for breeding. Its like a reproductive spa week for the cows

REI charges $40 for the AI per cow, $4 per cow for the luetelyze and some thing else that started with and S or C? and then $4.75 per day for care/feed per cow while they are there. We have the straws shipped to them a few days before we take the girls on their trip, then leave them for a couple of days to have the process done, then pick them up and bring them home.

of course its about a 50 mile drive from here to there and back again.

so does $400 sound like way too much to pay for four cows to be bred?

Callieslamb · #8 02/15/10, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darbyfamily

so does $400 sound like way too much to pay for four cows to be bred?

No. I am planning on one costing about $60 without the spa treatment....LOL!!! And I won't be looking for mini-jersey semen either.

RosewoodfarmVA · #9 02/15/10, 10:58 AM

Why not rent their bull for a month? Around here it is common to rent a bull, long enough to breed all the cows, then return him. Most cattlemen don't need a bull year round anyway and are willing to have him gone some.

$400 seems alot to breed 4 cows with AI, that would cancel out the sale price for one of the 4 calves. You can buy a bull for just a little more than that and sell him again once you're through for less than $400 loss. Add in the fact of possible AI failing the 1st time and that nice big bull looks even nicer!

darbyfamily · #10 02/15/10, 12:03 PM

True, but the bull is some three hours away from us, so to just rent him and then return is a big trip....and the bull we are wanting to use is a mini jersey, so I couldn't get one for less than $1000 that is old enough to do the job.

arcticow · #11 02/15/10, 12:41 PM

At $400 a year, you are still ahead. Go for it.

Cliff · #12 02/16/10, 07:10 AM

I know there has been one here and there, but I have never met a mean dexter bull. That doesn't mean you don't always keep an eye on them just in case, and of course never let kids hang out with them.
Jersey bulls otoh I wouldn't have on the place. Tbh never had a mini jersey so don't know if they might be more sane.

linn · #13 02/16/10, 07:20 AM

If you want to buy the Dexter bull go for it, just don't ever trust him or any other bull. DH is not afraid of our Angus bulls, but I sure am. I can remember visiting a lady with a Dexter bull in her pasture. That bull bellowed all the time we were there. He knew that there were strangers on the place. A bull can be gentle one moment and turn on you the next, I don't care how gentle they appear. Bulls are animals that operate on instinct. They don't think or reason.

Cliff · #14 02/16/10, 07:36 AM

Dexter bulls are the only bulls I'm NOT "afraid" of. I do remain watchful however. It's just common sense.
We do not get familiar (touching, petting, hand feeding) with any bull, ever. Even the Dexters. IMO that's asking for trouble.

tinknal · #15 02/16/10, 09:24 AM

There is another possibility. Bulls usually don't "go bad" until some time after they reach sexual maturity. Every year you could swap for, or buy a bull calf, foster it onto one of your cows, keep it around until the cows are bred next year, and then cut, sell, or trade him. Do this every year and you will get continuous new blood and you will never have to deal with a truly mature bull.

arcticow · #16 02/16/10, 10:30 AM

Second on the young bull, may be tough to get a mini, but send him on as a breeder, you should break close to even.

darbyfamily · #17 02/16/10, 11:02 AM

Good idea... something to consider

we won't be breeding them until June/July, so we have some time to consider our options.

darbyfamily · #18 02/16/10, 11:15 AM

WOW, scratch that! maybe we should just buy this other bull and then sell him after he breeds? YIKES! I found a couple for sale... for $1250!!! for a calf??? eek!

but, what I did find is some beautiful white jerseys in MO... eventually I'd love to cross a Black Dexter with a White Jersey and see what I get

I wonder which color would be dominant?

Anyway, if we buy this other fella, let him do his job, then sell him after we're done, we could probably get what we have in him back..