Jersey X Dexter's

[Oakshire_Farm]

Does anyone have a Jersey X Dexter that they milk??? I just bought a Dexter bull to breed my 4 girls, then head off to freezer camp I am thinking out of 4 cows I should ge a heifer or two. I just got talking to a lady that was looking for a mini jersey, I got talking to her and she sounded interested in possibly getting crossed heifer from me.

So does anyone have one, what is the aprox size and how much milk do you get from one? Pics would be great to

[Frenchy]

I just spoke with a lady up the road from me she has a herd of Dexters an some mini jerseys as well as standard jerseys she has crossed some Dex/Jer an has a couple of heifers (Dex/full size Jer X mini Jer bull) due to calve this spring haven't seen any of her cows yet but soon as I can I will get some pictures an info for you if possible

[francismilker]

Frenchy,
What part of Ark. are you from? That may not be too far for me to travel.

[cowkeeper]

[QUOTE=
So does anyone have one, what is the aprox size and how much milk do you get from one? Pics would be great to [/QUOTE]

Hi Oakshire, Size could be quite variable depending on the parents. My purebred Jerseys of 35 yrs ago were smallish, around 44 inches. The one I have now is 49 inches. There is a lot of variation too with Dexters. How big is your bull and does he carry the chondrodysplasia gene (dwarfism)? If he is a carrier, he would look small but have the genetic potential to produce either dwarfed or non-dwarfed offspring. (Chondro is a lethal gene in homozygous form, something to think about when using a carrier). If I were crossbreeding with Dexter, I would want to use a smallish (44-45") non-carrier bull.
Some Dexters will not have much milk over what their calf requires, then there are milky lines. Do you have any information about his breeding, and dam's udder/teat shape and milkiness? ck.

[copperhead46]

Chrondo is not a factor if you are breeding to a Jersey. I would use a long legged bull, the standard is 42 to 44 inches, as compared to 34 to 38 inches for the short legged type of Dexers. If I wanted really small offspring I would use a shorter sized long legged bull, he will be able to cover all your cows, no problem.
P.J.

[cowkeeper]

Originally Posted by copperhead46

Chrondo is not a factor if you are breeding to a Jersey. I would use a long legged bull, the standard is 42 to 44 inches, as compared to 34 to 38 inches for the short legged type of Dexers. If I wanted really small offspring I would use a shorter sized long legged bull, he will be able to cover all your cows, no problem.
P.J.

Hi Copperhead, Chondro would become a factor, if someone bred a bunch of Jersey-Dex (with chondro) crosses, and decides to maybe breed them together. Why introduce a lethal to another breed, where owners of the crosses would not necessarily be aware of chondro? ck.

[copperhead46]

I absolutly agree about intorducing the gene into another breed, I just didn't really think that it would transfer unless both parents are carriers, and if they were cross bred with another breed that the calf would be a non-carrier. BUT, I don't know, you could be right on the money. I will do some research into the idea, because I'd like to know myself, because I cross breed my Dexter bull with some beef bred heifers.
P.J.

I appoligize for hi-jacking the thread.......

[cowkeeper]

OK, a Dexter "carrier" (dwarf), has one copy of the defective (chondro) gene. If bred to a cow that doesnt carry the gene, there would be no 'bulldog' (dead, aborted) calves, as that takes two copies of the defective gene. But, each mating of a Dexter chondro carrier to (for example) a Jersey, would have a 50/50 chance of producing a chondro carrier. If two of these chondro carrying crossbreds were then mated, there would be the same chance of having a bulldog calf as in Dexter cattle.
No doubt, there are already a lot of Jersey crosses that have been miniaturized by using a chondro carrier. The smaller size desired by those wanting a miniature Jersey can be achieved by using a small but non chondro carrying Dexter parent, with none of the risk.ck

[Oakshire_Farm]

WOW thanks for all the info!

I however am not into doing a bunch of gene testing. I just want him to breed 4 of my cows then go to the freezer. He seems to have short legs. My hubby is going to dig a hole in the pasture that I can put my girls in when they are in heat.

[genebo]

Dexters were selected from the small cattle native to Ireland. Probably most of the originals were dwarf cattle and subsequently a large portion of all the Dexters raised since then were, too.

It's been said that the Dexter form of dwarfism is unique to Dexters, but that would only be true if EVERY dwarf cow or bull in Ireland were collected into the herd that became known as Dexters.

In fact, almost every breed has dwarfism in it. Some breeds are known to have as many as 9 different forms of dwarfism. My neighbor regularly has 2 different kinds of dwarves in his Angus herd. One is invariably fatal at less than 1 year of age. The famous "snorter" dwarves of the Hereford breed were a form of dwarfism.

The form that Dexters might carry is different from most in that it's a dominant trait. It causes dwarfism when the host carries a single gene for it. That makes it part of the animals phenotype. It can usually be seen that the animal is a dwarf. In cases where there is doubt, there's now a DNA test that is easy to administer and is cheap.

Then the prevention of 'bulldog calves' is easy. Just don't breed two dwarves together. That's the same rule that applies to every breed. Being a carrier of dwarfism isn't easy to spot in other breeds. Their forms are recessive and don't show up except in the case where a calf gets both genes. Then you are surprised.

Chondrodysplasia is the scientific name for the dwarfism found in Dexters. It was described in a research study in Australia back in 2004, and a test was invented to determine if an animal carried it.

It's gotten a lot of publicity since then. A lot of people have adopted it as their personal crusade, to eliminate it and change the Dexter breed. It's hard to talk about anything Dexter related without one of them popping up, complete with dire predictions and catch phrases.

Being a dwarf due to chondrodysplasia is a benign condition. It is evidenced by short legs, thick bodies and mild manners. Carriers live long, healthy lives and bring great pleasure to their owners.

If you breed two chondro carriers together, there's a 25% chance you will not have a live calf. A lot of the embryos will be aborted or will fail to implant. Some of the embryos will survive full term, but expire as soon as separated from the mother. None of those will live and grow up with 2 copies of the gene. The other 75% of the calves will be normal calves, with 25% being long legged non chondro carriers and 50% short legged carriers.

So don't breed 2 dwarves together. That's the rule to follow to avoid having your cow either abort early or produce a non-viable calf.

Dexter beef is great! Many people say the beef from a short legged Dexter is the best of all. Makes sense, since they're placid, slower moving and seldom get excited ("No worries, mate"). Their beef should be tenderer and better marbled.

Feed conversion is another thing. The Dexter breed has a reputation for being good feed converters. I think it's the dwarves that do the best job, due to their more placid natures. I've raised some short legged Dexters and some long legged Dexters on the same pasture and feed supplements. The shorties always put on extra bulk.

Nothing is as bad as the fear-mongers make it out to be, and probably nothing is as good as those who love them make them out to be. I love my short legged Dexters. I wouldn't trade them for any other cattle.

A Dexter/Jersey cow is a great cross. Healthier and hardier than a pure Jersey. Less milk than a Jersey, but more than a Dexter. Smaller fat globules in the milk, making it easier to digest. A gentler disposition usually comes with the cross. And of course, smaller than a Jersey. Eats less.

It's such a popular cross that lots of people have made that cross for many years. Dexter/Jerseys are given names like Belfair, Belmont, Irish Jersey, and more. I had one. Liked her a lot.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[copperhead46]

CK, I stand corrected.... a couple of folks on the Dexter forum say that you are correct, that the chrondro gene can be passed to a non-Dexter offspring. One of the ladys has Jersey crossed with Dexter one of her calves is a carrier bull calf. The lady also said that a lot of the mini-jersey breeders have their calves chrondro tested at Texas A&M just like Dexter breeders do, because so many of the mini jerseys were bred down by using carrier dexters as the seed stock. So, as long a someone uses a long legged Dexter,(non-carrier) on their Jerseys they can still get the smaller size without the threat of introducing Chrondro. Thanks for the chance to learn something new!!
P.J.

[genebo]

Here's one for you:

Annie is a Dexter Shorthorn cross. She carries a recessive Shorthorn dwarfism. She's not a dwarf. I bred her to Noelly, a dwarf Dexter bull, making Breanna, a 37" cow.

Breanna is a Dexter type dwarf that carries Shorthorn Dwarf.

I then bred Annie to Brenn, a dwarf Dexterbull, making Brian, a 36" bull.

Brian is a Dexter type dwarf that carries Shorthorn dwarf.

Breanna and Brian's new owner bred them together and got Bucky, a Shorthorn type dwarf that is also a Dexter type dwarf. Bucky is 23" tall. He's been submitted to the Guinness Book of Records as the world's smallest bull. The current record holder is 27" tall.

Bucky is a 'double dwarf'. Amazing, huh?

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...2009Bucky1.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...009Bucky10.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...2009Bucky3.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...2009Bucky7.jpg

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[Timberline]

Genebo, how old was Bucky in those pics?

[genebo]

Bucky was born on 11/29/08. He was 11 months old in the pictures I posted. He's 15 months old now.

The Guinness people won't accept his measurements until he's 24 months old, so we're waiting.

He hasn't grown any since the pictures were taken. It's almost a certainty he'll be under 27" at 2 years old.

He's a sweet little bull. He lives with an older goat for a companion. He doesn't do well mixed with the cows. He never gets anything to eat! His first goat companion died just after the pictures were taken. She was 20 years old. Bucky moped and seemed depressed, so he got one of the first goat's descendents, a young girl of 15.

He's never had his picture in the paper, but word gets around. Two or three people a week come by his farm to look at him. He's quite an attraction.

Bucky weighed 20 pounds at birth. He had a half-sister, a heifer, that was born the same day and was the same size, but a roaming dog killed her within a couple of hours.

Bucky is unique. You're extremely unlikely to have the same thing ever happen in using a Dexter to crossbreed. Dexters have been used extensively to reduce the size of cattle of all breeds for many years, and this is the first of these I've ever heard of.

He only illustrates the possibility that exists. Now the alarmists can start shouting about the dread "double-dwarf" syndrome.

Bucky is a beautiful creature. He recognizes me every time I go to see him and comes to see if I brought him some treats. They're lucky to have him.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[LizD]

The deliberate breeding of animals to carry a lethal gene, whether chondrodysplasia or PHA in our breed or any breed is contrary to what would happen in nature. This breeding of 'miniatures' through the use of incorporating a lethal gene which disguises real height is human engineering. I know that you say 'Bucky is a beautiful creature' but to me he is sad. He would never survive in any herd of cows, never mind if there were other bulls present. He shouldn't 'be' here, except for the fact that someone 'bred' a him and luckily there is someone who accepted him as a pet.

You are right, every breed has HAD or still HAS some form of dwarfism..... Every other breed is working hard at eliminating it, except for ours, Dexters.

I object to a picture of a 'Bucky' being held up as a poster boy of what the possibility of crossbreeding with a Dexter could do! It is not my 'crusade' to prevent you from breeding cows with a genetic abnormality, it is my crusade however to counter, every time you insist that Chondrodysplasia is an integral part of Dexters, and somehow 'cute'. There are a lot of Dexter breeders that are not trying to breed dwarfs but are trying to breed hardy, efficient small dual purpose cattle. Their milk is great and their meat truly exceptional, environmentally friendly and some of my best friends.. (well except for my husband, if he reads this!) Oh and btw Gene, Clive Taylor, a really large Dexter beef producer in the uk, insists that 'long leg' non- carriers are the best bet for commercial, only eats the carriers themself=ves because the long legs offer consistency. Read again his many posts on the 'Dexter boards'.

Ok that's my rant. But geeze Gene guess why Dexters aren't taken seriously in the cattle world??!!

[LizD]

Sorry Oakshire, had to get that off my chest! I bred my standard reg. Jersey (49") to a non-chondro bull,(46") known for udders and daughters' milkyness. Unfortunately Gina (Lolabrigida .... mom is Brigit (Bardot)) is just a weanling so I don't know how she will look yet as an adult. The few things I can tell you for sure are that she has; really nicely formed teats, teat spacing and udder tissue. She is smaller, Dexter are naturally smaller cattle, so the bull factored in, is more tractable, Jersey definitely factored in , but she doesn't have any more back fat than her dam.... which was why I bred her Dexter in the first place. Your part of Canada is tropical compared to my frosty (-30 nights) corner! I am excited to see her freshen! I am excited to see if her milk is like a jersey, or a Dexter or a combination of both breeds.

However my Dexters I will continue to breed Dexter and in the future my Jersey will be bred Jersey. Liz

[Onthebit]

I agree with Liz, I am not about to start breeding Dexter s for the pet market. Bucky is a poor example of the breed to say the least.

[genebo]

Bucky is not a Dexter. Bucky is a Dexter/Shorthorn cross who happened to get Shorthorn dwarfism plus Dexter dwarfism. As I stated before, the Shorthorn dwarfism is recessive. You can't tell they carry it. As far as I know, there's no DNA test for it, either.

In addition, if you knew the circumstances to go along with his birth, the care and compassion that his owners showed to his parents as well as to all their animals, you'd be singing a different tune. Don't rush to be judgemental based upon the small bit of information I supplied.

Let me see you love and care for an aging goat for 20 years, and do it so well that she remained in good enough health to bear her last kids when she was 19.

Bucky wasn't bred to be the way he is. It happened.

What is it about you Canadians? Does everybody speak French up there, eh?

And if you must criticize someone for presenting a poor example of the breed, how about someone who deliberately uses a bull that is over the height restrictions for the breed?

Show us your shining examples. I show mine. I already asked Liz to show hers on another thread where she was criticizing mine, but she declined.

Here's Bucky's brother, from the same mating:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...9Charlie15.jpg

Charlie didn't inherit either form of dwarfism, even though he had the same parents. Do you think that he should never have been bred, too? Would y'all like both Charlie and Bucky to not 'be' here any more?

Here's their great-Grandfather, who started it all:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...o16/Noelly.jpg

What a noble animal. King of all he surveys and a gentleman beyond compare. I was priviledged to own him for a short time, but neither I nor the Angus farmers around here will ever forget him. They wanted to buy him to add quality to their herds.

What do you say, Liz? Would you have wanted him killed, so he wouldn't "'be' here"? (your words). You're too late. He passed on last year after a long rich life. On his last day, he gave rides to the kids where he lived.

Aahhh! Love those Dexters.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[LizD]

Actually Gene; I do speak French, but I am not sure what that has to do with anything other than your prejudice. You used Bucky as an example of the 'possibilities of a Dexter cross' not I. As I said before I think Bucky is truly an unfortunate result and if he were in a cow herd, not with a 15 year old goat, chances are that he would be dead.

If you had used the picture of 'Charlie' as an example of the 'possibilities of a Dexter cross' I wouldn't have even responded to your posts, even with the bias's and inaccuracies.

I find it difficult to believe that I am the only person on this board, Canadian or not, that finds the boasting of Bucky appalling. Maybe because I am also a Dexter breeder and really get irked that other cattle breeders get examples like Bucky, I am the only one that spoke up.

I don't care what you do Gene or what you look for in your breeding program but I do care how the breed or 'possible crosses' with our breed are portrayed.

Incidentally Gene, you asked me what was wrong with your udder picture and I told you my opinion, you didn't ask me to show you an example.

Go and reread it, Liz

ps sorry Gene you did ask me later on in another post ..

Here is Reannagh, fairly nice cow, lousy feet (my bane) I think she has a pretty good udder, but I wouldn't post her as an example of what to look for in a cow.... , that's why we have a breeding program, 40", tested non-chondrodysplasia (dwarf gene) carrier

[linn]

I believe that some people support the theory that the "achondroplastic factor" was introduced deliberately by cross breeding with dwarf Devon cattle. If this is true then the Dexter is not naturally a dwarf-type animal, but small scale cattle. These short-legged individuals may be a throw back to the Dwarf Devon.

http://www.dex-info.net/summalderson99.htm