Boggled?

[Oakshire_Farm]

Right now I have 7 calves on the go all are over about 2 months, 2 of the bigger ones were slower than the others but healthy. 2 nights ago they would not get up? I get them up they run to there food, eat and drink and run around. Act totally healthy, but then they lay down again and will not get up
??? What is going on with them? They kicks at me if I am behind them are acting like you regular healthy happy calves except when they lay down they cannot get up? I am getting pretty frustrated with them.

Any one got a suggestions?

[tinknal]

Are they warm and well bedded and comfy while they are laying down?

How would you like it if someone burst into your bedroom and booted you out of your cozy bed out into the cold?

[Oakshire_Farm]

They are in the barn and a deep bed of shavings. These 2 just seem so lazy? They do not act ill, since going "down" they have lost some weight. But I think that is from eating going and laying down away from the feed and I don't get back out to them till the end of the day and when I left them up they cannot RUN to there feed fast enough???

I have raised 100's of holstein calves and these 2 have me stumped? They are perfectly healthy but they just cannot get up once they go down. We are having nice hot days here! The sun is shinning and the other 5 calves are running laps of the pasture all day long. I have been out working in just a long sleeved t-shirt. SO they are not cold.

[agmantoo]

Oakshire

Are your feeding free choice a complete mineral/vitamin supplement? If not, talk to your feed source and find out what is needed in your area.

[Oakshire_Farm]

They have free choice of a complete grain, it is made locally for our local needs. But they only have free choice when they get up for it. It is really frustrating! They are putting weight back on really quick since I have been keeping them in and making sure they get up a few times a day to eat. But I am not convinced they are 100% since they still need help to get up??? The vet is not much help with calves, right now calves are being given away, last time I called the vet out for a calf, he laughed at me and told me that it is not worth calling him out. I should have just put it down and got a free replacement I like my no bull s$^* vet He did fix my problem last time but told me next time just to put the calf down.

[gone-a-milkin]

Is it just that they are weak and need a boost, or do they require lifting the back half all the way up? Is it like their front legs are wobbly, or their hips? How long have they been weaned?

You definitely do want to keep getting them up several times a day.

Even though they are having free choice grain, you may still want to give them a mineral supplement.

[copperhead46]

Could this be a selinium problem? Maybe a shot of Bo-Se?? I sure hope someone can help, it sounds really frusrating. It sounds like a muscle weakness, hmmmm.
P.J.

[Oakshire_Farm]

They just need a lift under there bum, then they get up, not really wobbly? They are really just acting lazy?? Usually while I am fighting to get one up the other struggles and gets up on his own now, but it is a stagger, then he gets up. The real frustrating thing is how they are when they get up? They are FINE!! They run, jump, KICK, eat drink? I gave them a vitamin shot (Vitamaster, if anyone is familiar with that?) They seem to be able to get up easier, today then they were yesterday??

[gone-a-milkin]

Sounds like they are on the mend. May tomorrow be a better day.

[tinknal]

Could it be a mild case of grass tetany?

"Hypomagnesaemic tetany in calves is common and is often accompanied by hypocalcaemia. It is caused by a dietary magnesium deficiency exacerbated by a high intake of calcium, which causes depletion of magnesium stores and lower serum and bone levels of magnesium. Milk is an adequate source of magnesium in very young calves. However, the efficiency of magnesium absorption decreases up to about three months of age, when maximum susceptibility to the disease occurs.

Other factors may predispose hypomagnesaemic tetany. Scouring reduces magnesium absorption. Chewing fibrous material, such as floor bedding, increases salivation and thus causes greater losses of endogenous magnesium. Hypomagnesaemic tetany in calves often coexists with other diseases, especially enzootic muscular dystrophy.

The disease is most common in housed, inadequately fed animals. Calves aged 2-4 months or over are most at risk when fed solely on a diet of whole milk, as with veal calves. However, the disease also occurs in calves running at pasture with their dams. Calves receiving the greatest quantity of milk and growing most rapidly are more likely to be affected, as they have a greater need for magnesium.

Tetany does not occur until serum magnesium levels fall below 0.8 mg/dl (0.33 mmol/l), and is most severe at levels below 0.6 mg/dl (0.25 mmol/l), although calves may have levels even lower than this and show few clinical signs. It is probable that hypocalcaemia precipitates tetany, in animals rendered tetany-prone by low serum magnesium levels."

http://www.thecattlesite.com/disease...ium-deficiency

[Cliff]

One thing calves are not is lazy. So put that one out of your head and find the real issue.
From your descriptions they want to be up they just can't get up.
Call your vet and see if he'll give you a phone consult since he doesn't think calves are worth a house call. Then you could pick up whatever meds he suggests. Lots of cow vets will do that.

[whatknott]

have you wormed them? Coccidia is also a problem at this age - that would be my first two guesses.

[tinknal]

I just realized I did not post the symptoms of tetany (staggers)

"Staggers (Magnesium Deficiency)

Cattle need a continuous supply of magnesium primarily to facilitate numerous energy-generating reactions in their tissues and for the orderly transmission of nerve pulses. The kidneys maintain magnesium homeostasis, and a renal threshold exists below which magnesium excretion is sharply reduced. Cattle rely on absorption of magnesium from the rumen to meet most of their needs. The animal cannot modify magnesium absorption and absorbs only a small proportion (<30%) of the magnesium consumed.

There are two types of hypomagnesaemia, hypomagnesaemic tetany in calves, which appears to be due to a straightforward deficiency of magnesium in the diet, and lactation tetany, in which there may be a partial dietary deficiency but in which nutritional and metabolic factors reduce the availability, or increase the body loss, of magnesium.

Slower grass growth and lack of artificial fertilisation on organically managed pastures may be protective against lactation/grass tetany in cows."

[agmantoo]

tinknal, I think there is a deficiency in their diet also. That is why I asked above. I did not fully understand the reply "They have free choice of a complete grain, it is made locally for our local needs."

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

tinknal, I think there is a deficiency in their diet also. That is why I asked above. I did not fully understand the reply "They have free choice of a complete grain, it is made locally for our local needs."

Good point. They could also be eating their bedding, usually low in magnesium, which could displace part of their ration thus throwing things out of whack.

[francismilker]

Are you absolutely sure they got a good amount of colostrum. I've had some calves in the past that begin to slowly rise or need assistance in doing so that were in the beginning stages of joint-ill/naval-ill. If in fact they are slow to get going and then act as if they are stiff from arthritis for the first few steps they might be coming down with it. Just a thought.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by francismilker

Are you absolutely sure they got a good amount of colostrum. I've had some calves in the past that begin to slowly rise or need assistance in doing so that were in the beginning stages of joint-ill/naval-ill. If in fact they are slow to get going and then act as if they are stiff from arthritis for the first few steps they might be coming down with it. Just a thought.

With all due respect, Francismilker, any deficiency in colostrum would have resulted in dead calves long before 2 months of age.

[Madsaw]

Originally Posted by tinknal

With all due respect, Francismilker, any deficiency in colostrum would have resulted in dead calves long before 2 months of age.

Tinknal, Your correct on that one. Usally 3 days tops for nasty to no colostrum. I have had no choice in the past but to use what the cow gave me. I had none in the freezer and I did not have any of the bagged stuff either. How that calfed lived and got what it need from that mastitis nasty stuff is beyond me.
Francis,
I think you might have hit on somethign though. Check their belly button area for any swelling or hardness. If any is found treat with penicillin.
Bob

[Oakshire_Farm]

I was away for the day The complete grain that I give them, I live on a smallish island,we our lucky enough to have our own grainery, they make a special "dairy ration" with extra silenium and mag, we are different in both. So it is a grain that is formulated for the needs of our dietary needs.

Tonight they are getting up on there own! So I think we are good, I think it may have just been a cold or something? They are about 3 months now and were living with 5 other calves so it was just weird that only the 2 showed the symptoms? They have perked right up? So I am thinking they are on the mend. I will up date as there condition changes Thanks for all the suggestions I will spend a bunch of time googling tomorrow to check into them all further!

P.S. This site is great!

[francismilker]

Originally Posted by tinknal

With all due respect, Francismilker, any deficiency in colostrum would have resulted in dead calves long before 2 months of age.

Maybe my vet has been misinforming me!