weak twins

[JHinCA]

Hi,
Daisy, 5 yr old Normande/Jersey cross bred to milking shorthorn, had 2 bull calves last night between 6 and 7 pm. She seems fine. The first born seems not right. Our vet says by my description it was oxygen starved on the way out and brain damaged. It is twitching, making swimming motions on its side, won't suck, can't get it to sit up on its chest let alone stand up. Second born looks normal and alert but is weak. I have been giving it colostrum with a syringe. Vet says 1 pint for every 10 pounds weight in the first 24 hours, so for this 45 pound calf should get 4.5 pints. Calf 2 has not stood up yet or had a bowel movement so far as I can tell. First calf w/seizures sometimes seems able to swallow and sometimes not. Have been trying to syringe feed him, too. Vet did not come out but on the phone did not sound optimistic. Any other advice? A shot of BoSe for the more normal one? Is the twitchy one hopeless?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Jean

[agmantoo]

Neither calf has much promise as to your descriptions. A healthy calf would have been on its feet and already eating and scampering about. You are not going to like my suggestion but being honest I would put the oxygen deprived one down and concentrate on the second calf. He may make it. I would also contact a dairy if there is one nearby and arrange to buy/reserve a healthy bull calf if I was wanting to raise a calf. PS....I would abandon the syringe and tube the second calf until it develops some strength.

[springvalley]

Been there , done that. I had heifer calf born a month early this spring and we saved it .We tube feed the calf two days and then got it to nurse and it got better each day. Now we had our calf in the milk house where it was warmer or the little bugger may not have made it. I never give up on any calf till it aint breathing anymore. Just make sure you get enough colostrum in him. This calf of mine I had no hope for either but being a heifer calf we go to great extremes. In my book a dead calf is a loss in profit, I know bull calves ain`t worth much , but I`m old school. Thanks Marc.

[JHinCA]

Agmanto--you agree with my vet. We don't need another bull calf right now, but I guess I am stubborn.

springvalley--I am still pushing colostrum down both of them, but without much hope.

Thanks for the responses. Will see what happens.

Jean

[Gregg Alexander]

Don't sound good, sorry

[randiliana]

Well, I've saved some pretty long shots. Calves that were down and out and showed almost no response. I've saved more than I've lost, so don't give up. But sometimes the birth is just too long, or they are just too early and there is nothing you can do about it.

Electrolytes might be useful to use. But for me when I have to do electrolytes, I prefer to divide up the dose into 3-4 feedings, rather than give them one huge dose at once. In really weak calves I think that huge dose shocks their system and shuts some of them down. For really small calves, like you're dealing with, the original dose should be cut down anyways. For a regular sized calf I will give them about 500ml (2 cups) at a dose and repeat in 2-4 hours. You can feed milk alternately with electrolytes, I don't believe in stopping the milk when you're feeding electrolytes. Their is no food value in electrolytes, and I don't think starving a sick baby is a great way to get them healthy again. Just feed a smaller feeding of milk.

It's a lot of work to saving these babies. Give selenium, a single dose is NOT going to hurt them, and it may help them get going.

I would think that the twitchy one is going to be a real long shot to save, especially if he won't swallow. You could get a esophogeal feeder, and try that. I sure would prefer it to syringe feeding them. For the stronger one, to get it on a bottle, try a lamb nipple. Much more its size, and they are a lot softer and easier for a weak calf to suck than the ones on the big bottles.

[bruce2288]

If the poorer calf will not swallow, you are risking putting colostrum into the lungs. Get some 50% detrose solution and inject, most under the skin and a forth in the muscle. 100cc total would be a good start. I have saved ice cold nonresponive calves and lambs this way. The body can get a direct energy supply with no digestion required.

[francismilker]

I agree with the above posts that it's a real longshot for both of them. (especially the first) However, if you're as stubborn as I am and know how to tube feed them I'd suggest tubing both of them at least a quart of colostrum with an esophagal feeding tube. At this point, there ability to absorb colostrum is next to near gone if not completely. The colostrum you get in them will be far superior to any meds and will hydrate them as well.
As far as them not pooping, it takes awhile for nature to run it's course. What goes in has to come out.

BTW, for what it's worth, if you've got mama there with them and can get either of the two of them up, I'd try letting mama nurse them instead of using a bottle. An artificial nipple is a lot harder for a newbie to get ahold of unless mama has really huge, deformed teat ends.

[JHinCA]

We put down the twitchy one. It turns out he was blind as well as all his other problems. The other one who looked better, had gotten up and been walking around, died last night. We have been lucky up til now. These are the first calves we have lost.

Thanks for the suggestions and support.

Jean

[randiliana]

So sorry to hear that!! Weak newborns are very hard to get going, more often than not you lose them. So, don't beat yourself up too much....

[springvalley]

sorry about the calves, you tried, that says alot. Marc