please help, are they too skinny??

[critterluv]

Ok long story but Im stuck taking care of these cows that were soposed to be gone by winter, they are still here and im geting really frustrated, I am barely able to get hay money out of the owner and Im using my own funds now to care for them, I cant afford it. I have emailed her and she said all they need is hay, no dewarming or grain is needed. Now the 3 bulls are jerseys and I know they are soposed to be skinny but are they too skinny? and the cow was very Beefy when she got here and I know she said she was old but I dont know how old, the calf on her s about 5-6 wks old. What should I be doing untile I can get them out of here?!

[rancher1913]

the one with the calf needs help--calfs really drag a cow down in the winter and she needs extra protien. doing free choice feed like that is good if you can afford it. get them a 20 percent protien tub and wean the calf as soon as you can or put the moma and calf in a seperate pen and feed her 4th cutting high protien alfalfa. talk to the local brand inspector about the posibility that the cows are being dumped on you so that if the need arises you can sell them. make sure they have salt and mineral blocks free choice.

[critterluv]

How old does the calf need to be to wean? and what do i feed him when I do.
Sorry I have 9 of her horses too, but at least I know horses and they are all doing fine. I just have never had experience with cows.

[tinknal]

I just went through a similar experience with an animal hoarder and her horses. These types will keep using you as long as you will let them. We finally called the sheriff and he gave her 30 days to remove the animals. If she does not remove them in that time sell them. You will also have standing to sue for costs.

[ozark_jewels]

Yes, they are too thin. The beef cow especially, but the Jerseys are thin also. Possible they need wormed? The old beef cow might need some grain to keep weight on while nursing a calf, but the Jersey bulls/steers shouldn't need more than decent hay if they are healthy. They wouldn't be fat on just hay, but they should be heavier than what is seen in these pictures.
And yes, they should have minerals. Loose are best, but blocks are better than nothing.
And I understand this should not be your concern, so if it was me, I would be taking steps toward getting these animals removed from my care asap.
If you want to do something for them even if they aren't your own, I'd say the first step might be a good worming with Ivermectin or Cydectin.

[critterluv]

Anouther question, these 4 cows are eating about 5 round bales of brome a month, they are about 900lb bales. Is this the norm for them? just woundering becouse she was geting snippy with me when I have already had to buy 17 bales this month for these 4 cows and her 9 quarter horses, My arabian horses dont eat near as much as these quarters do.

Just woundering if this is a normal amount for these cows to eat or should they be eating less/more? Its available at all times, I dont let them run out, the one time I did that and through them a small bale for the night they got out, wount ever do that aain..lol

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by critterluv

Anouther question, these 4 cows are eating about 5 round bales of brome a month, they are about 900lb bales. Is this the norm for them? just woundering becouse she was geting snippy with me when I have already had to buy 17 bales this month for these 4 cows and her 9 quarter horses, My arabian horses dont eat near as much as these quarters do.

Just woundering if this is a normal amount for these cows to eat or should they be eating less/more? Its available at all times, I dont let them run out, the one time I did that and through them a small bale for the night they got out, wount ever do that aain..lol

How much hay they should eat depends greatly on the quality of the hay. Just from the pictures(which isn't always right) the hay looks to have a lot of stem and little blade. If that is the case, there will not be a lot of nutrition left in it and the cows/horses will have to eat more of it to get what they need. Also, they look to be wasting a *lot* of hay since there are no bale rings around the bales. So how much are they eating and how much are they standing on and sleeping in?? Tell her you need bale rings.
Also, when weather is cold, cows will eat a lot more hay than when weather is warm.
My four Jersey cows(two milking, two bred), one jersey calf and one Arabian mare will eat one big round bale of alfalfa/orchard grass about every 8-10 days. But it is good hay, and they get good nutrition from it.
So in my opionion, there is no way to be able to say how much your cows should eat without knowing what the quality of the hay is, what the weather is like there, etc.
Also, if they are wormy and/or mineral deficient, they will not be able to assimilate to good use, the hay they are eating.

[Callieslamb]

You are buying hay for someone else's cows?

They look okay to me but I would want my cows to look better. The one momma cow is thin. Jerseys run to a bony frame.

[Farm 36]

Your doing the best that you can. The animals look fine but the cow could use some grain and protein . You can use a calf grower pellet or feed. If you want to feed the cow to help her put more weight on. Feed her 5 to 8 lb of feed will help (feed at $12per hundred will cost .60 to .75 cent per day to feed her ).
First send a registered letter to the owner of the animals and state that you need this amount of money or you will sell the animals on a certain date if the money is not recieved to you . If the animals are sold they will sell at the bottom of the market being bulls and horns .My guess if you take them to the sales barn that the cow and calf will sell for 200 for the pair and 600 for the pair of bulls or steers

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by Farm 36

If the animals are sold they will sell at the bottom of the market being bulls and horns .

Are they really bulls? They look more like steers to me. They are framed up nice. With some good grub they would make nice freezer beef.

[Allen W]

Find out what you need to do to get them off your place and do it. It sounds like sooner or later your going to be left holding the bag on this deal.

[Cliff]

Looks like they all could use worming. Do they have minerals? If they hay isn't that great they could also use a protein tub.

[critterluv]

I just finaly got an email from her and this is her advise to me.

"Hi Kimberly,

I could open the pictures. YEs they are way to thin. They won't take the cow for sure at a sale barn and I am not sure on the bulls but I don't think so. They would probably comdemn them or send them back.
The only things I can think of are check them for lice (but usually lice don't affect them this time of year that is usually in Feb. or March.)
I know you have been feeding them and taking care of them- so PLEASE don't take this bad, I don't mean it that way -- but I have not seen cattle this thin that were being fed and watered! They look like some cattle I have seen that were not being cared for at all. I understand now why you have been so stressed about them. Something is wrong. It doesn't have to do with breed.
If you can get a sack of Permectrin dust or a can of it should be about $8. (at the coop or at Bluestem) and dust their backs and heads-, and a block of salt. They are eating the same hay as the horses right? They should be fine on that hay.
I think there is also a blcok (like a salt block to worm them but I am not sure.) If you can try to get those 2 things when the money order arrives. Then we will go to the worming next if that doesn't get it.
Agnes is almost too thin to worm I am afraid.
Agnes worries me because her eyes look sunk in like she is dehydrated too or something.. so I am thinking lice.. You should be able to see them- they look like a little (very small) tick the lice eggs are white and sometimes around the ears or top of head... I know they won't take her at a sale and since they are all thin - it is lice, worms(which shouldn't affect adult cattle like that). Anyway lets start with the lice stuff which will be easier to do and the salt block. I will try to find a pen or something here but moving her worries me. We may have to put her and calf in other pen and feed her grain for a while or a veegie block or something or something before I can move her"

now im really upset, I know she says she thinks im feeding them but it almost sounds like she dont eve believe it. would lice really be afecting them like that?

[critterluv]

Oh and the hay is pretty good stuff, its brome its just all wet in the pic. all of my horses and her horses do very well on it, the only one i feed grain too is my old stud and the goats, other than that everyone except these cows are doing fine and staying fat on this same hay.

[Cliff]

I've never seen lice cause cows to get that thin. Bad lice infestations will also cause patches of hair to fall out. They tend to be worse in late winter/early spring, not december.
I'd worm them first then worry about lice. The wormer will most likely take care of the lice as well anyway so you're killing two birds with one stone by worming. Pour on wormer is easiest imo, you know for sure what dose they're getting. I don't like wormer blocks or wormer in feed. I'd probably start with pour on ivermectin then see how they do.

ETA - You didn't mention if they have minerals?

[tinknal]

Kim, she is lying to you. The any salebarn I've ever been in would accept those cattle. They don't look lousy to me, and what she said about worms is pure hogwash. Adult cattle can and do get them.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by tinknal

Kim, she is lying to you. The any salebarn I've ever been in would accept those cattle. They don't look lousy to me, and what she said about worms is pure hogwash. Adult cattle can and do get them.

Agreed. Sounds like she doesn't have a clue what she's talking about, and she's getting attitude with you?

[Lazy J]

Ship them to the sale barn!

[critterluv]

Thanks everyone, as soon as the money order arvies "crossing fingers) ill get them the wormer and minerals. No they dont have minerals now she has kept telling me all this time they dont need anything except hay, they are soposed to be thin ( the bulls and yes they are all 3 bulls) the jersey heifer she had out here died a couple weeks ago, I was soposed to get the calf if it was a heifer calf but it died during birth then 2 days later the cow died and she acted like she did not believe me.

Sorry for the ranting. I will get that wormer and loose mineral and get some corn for them and she has a month to pay for it all and remove them otherwise Im taking them to sale to get reimbersed. I was told I can get a lean on them and then I legally would be able to sell them, was going to talk to a lawyer next Mon to be sure Im doing this legally.

Thanks everyone

[Cliff]

Be real careful around those Jersey bulls. They can get real squirrely real quick. One minute they can be fine the next minute trying to kill you.

ETA - Actually wondering why someone who just has a few cows would even have 3 jersey bulls. And why they would ask someone not familiar with cows to babysit 3 jersey bulls. They are dangerous.
That right there indicates the woman doesn't know much about cows.
BTW, no cow is "supposed" to be thin. More bs.