Read the Sticky on Bottle Calves and Still Have ????

[jlgoinggreen]

We are about to go pick up our very first two bull calves from the neighboring dairy farm. A friend lent us a bander thingy to turn them into steers and I will be calling a friend to help us put it on (just to make sure we do this right). Before we pick them up, we will be stopping by the store to get everything we will need.

After reading what topside wrote about the MR, I am wondering about it. We do have dairy goats, but none are in milk yet. Would we be better off buying raw milk from a neighboring dairy farm. He is selling it to us for $2 a gallon and the MR sells for $60 per 50# bag in our area. What do you think?

We are also buying the following:
Bottles
Fluid Feeding tube
Electrolytes
Rectal Thermometer
Maybe a calf coat or I might make one

I am on the fence with all the medications/shots you have listed as I wanted to raise my beef as natural as possible. These calves seem very healthy. Wet noses and alert eyes. Very playful and always looking for food. Their stools seem fine from what I can tell. Are these medications/shots only for those buying from sales barn or are they necessary precautions everyone should take?

Everyone also gives different things. So far from what you wrote I have the following listed.

Benamine
Cow Aspirin
Antibiotic
Probiotic
Cocci-Boluses
LA-200

Could you please elaborate as to which would be best and what is a "must have"? Also, should these be given right away or only have as a precaution in case they get sick. Please keep in mind I would love to stay as natural as possible, but at the same time want to be humane and keep healthy animals.

[tinknal]

Get the E.coli vacine. Don't medicate unless they show symptoms or they are VERY stressed when they arrive. If you go with the MR get the very best non-medicated you can get. MR is one item you should not try to save a buck on. Whole milk from the neighbor would be fine, but a pain to have to go pick up every day or so.

[tinknal]

Also, should you ever have to tube feed a calf be VERY carefull. If the tube goes down the wrong hole it is instant death. You can tell if the tube is in the right place. The calf will chew on the tube when it is placed correctly.

[topside1]

Jennifer, I'd buy two bags of top quality MR. By doing so you will simplify you daily routine. You will be needing two gallon of milk per day, that's a lot of driving back and forth to the farm. If you don't have your own raw milk then run with the MR. Next year plan to buy calves after the girls freshen. I usually have two freezers full of milk then buy calves....What bred of calf did you buy? I'm excited for you, new calves are a challenge, don't overfeed and hold the bottle lower than your belt when feeding. The necks should be in a locked type position when drinking. Just visualize the height of a cows udder and feed slightly higher to prevent back cramps....Enjoy

[topside1]

Myers Farm recently posted feeding amounts that he uses...I agree with him. He's my view.
1. large framed holstein= 1 gallon per day
2. medium holstein=3/4 gallon per day and VERY slowly increase to 1 gallon
3. small holstein=6 pints per day divided into three feedings
4. super small=4 pints per day

Good Luck, and keep asking questions...Topside

[Madsaw]

Here is what I use for these areas that you listed.
Benamine, Used with pnuemonia, and withpain
Cow Aspirin, I use these with cows
Antibiotic, Pencillin, draxxin, nuflur, micotil
Probiotic, pro-bios
Cocci-Boluses, sustain3(also used for pneumonia and scours)
LA-200, hardly ever used and then only used for hoof root, and pink eye in adult cattle
Bob

[springvalley]

You guys have given good advise on here, but I never use MR, calves need whole milk and do much better on it. Why do you think people come to the farm to buy raw whole milk? Because it is better for you. You can get enough whole milk from your neighbor for a week at a time this time of year, it won`t spoil. just keep it stirred up everytime you use it. And at 2.00 per gal. that ain`t bad.Another thing Tinknal stated about tubing calves I always put tube down first then put it to my ear also to make sure it is not in the windpipe. And don`t over feed calves , you can kill them with kindness by overfeeding. I don`t use medications as we are organic unless their is no other cure. And some day soon I will give you guys some of my natural cures and tonics I use. Topsides feeding chart is right on the money. You will have to up the amount as they get older and bigger. I would suggest keeping a small bottle of penicillin on hand if you want. Better to have it and not need it. Thanks Marc

[tinknal]

After re reading my last post let me clarify. You will not kill the calf by putting the tube down the wrong hole so don't worry about killing them by getting the wrong spot on your first try. It's the fluid milk or electrolyte solution that does the damage. Put the tube in first, make sure it is in the right spot, and then attach the milk container.

[springvalley]

most of us knew what you meant Tinknal, but thanks for clearing it up for the rest.

[jlgoinggreen]

Originally Posted by topside1

Jennifer, I'd buy two bags of top quality MR. By doing so you will simplify you daily routine. You will be needing two gallon of milk per day, that's a lot of driving back and forth to the farm. If you don't have your own raw milk then run with the MR. Next year plan to buy calves after the girls freshen. I usually have two freezers full of milk then buy calves....What bred of calf did you buy? I'm excited for you, new calves are a challenge, don't overfeed and hold the bottle lower than your belt when feeding. The necks should be in a locked type position when drinking. Just visualize the height of a cows udder and feed slightly higher to prevent back cramps....Enjoy

Thanks topside1. We bought Holsteins. The bottle feeding has turned out to be quite a challenge. We were not ready for the head butting as they drink and then chasing you around and butting you to get more when they are done. LOL How do you teach them not to butt you. I know we shouldn't push back on their heads, but what should we do. One literally picked me up off the ground by his nose in between my legs and butting. Ouch!

[jlgoinggreen]

Thanks everyone, your advice is great and appreciated.

Springvalley, I will most likely take your approach. We bought one bag of MR before I got a chance to read your reply. I was concerned about the milk keeping, but as cold as it is outside, I agree with you that it should be fine. They were already getting MR, so I will start giving MR and then gradually doing a 75/25, 50/50, 25/75 before the whole milk. Thank you.

[topside1]

Their butting power will only increase. The quickest way the no get butted is to buy a milkbar. Hang it over the pens rail, and walk away. By the time your finished the rest of your chores the boys will be done sucking and butting...guess we can call that multi-tasking....Topside

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by jlgoinggreen

Thanks everyone, your advice is great and appreciated.

Springvalley, I will most likely take your approach. We bought one bag of MR before I got a chance to read your reply. I was concerned about the milk keeping, but as cold as it is outside, I agree with you that it should be fine. They were already getting MR, so I will start giving MR and then gradually doing a 75/25, 50/50, 25/75 before the whole milk. Thank you.

Also, raw milk sours instead of rots. Soured raw milk won't hurt calves.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by Cliff

Also, raw milk sours instead of rots. Soured raw milk won't hurt calves.

Exactly. In fact, most all our heifers are raised on soured milk. Clabbered, soured, they never have problems with it.

[ozark_jewels]

If you don't want to do a milkbar, the next best thing is a bottle-holder than hangs on a board or a gate. This keeps the calves from butting you, and allows you to feed/hay/water while the calves are busy nursing.

[Callieslamb]

I think what ever you choose to put your calves on - keep them on one kind of milk - MR or fresh- don't flip them back and forth between two kinds. I used MR - it was easy for us. Raw/fresh wasn't available. We had not problems at all.

I havne' tgiven anay shots to them yet. The heifer is due for some though. I don't have any of the items you listed. Of them the feeding tube is one that we will invest in someday. When mine start to butt too often- I just put them on a bucket.