calf question

[ihuntgsps]

Hi-
I live in Iowa and we have about 1-2 feet of snow on the ground. My 8yr old dexter just had a calf an hour or so ago and instead of having it in the cattle shed, or barn, she took it out in the pasture and had it in the snow.
It is 23 degrees and should be a high of 30 degrees today. She is not a tame cow and is very protective of her calves and a good MOM. Just never had her calf in the snow before when more comfortable options were available.
Neighbor says do not worry about it she'll take care of the calf just fine and a buddy at work says get some guys to chase them cow off and get the calf indie the barn. Anyone have any opinions to share?

[Cliff]

Leave her alone, they will be fine. As long as the calf has a belly full of colostrum it's good to go.
Think cows would've ever survived for so long if they were that delicate?

[tinknal]

You just have to ask yourself a few questions.

Has the calf been dried off by momma?

Is the calf up and about?

Is it nursing? Does it look bright and interested in the world?


If you answer yes to all of these questions then don't worry.

In some ways a snowdrift is the best place for a calf to be born. No active E.coli bacteria around, little chance of pneumonia causing bacteria being around. No blood sucking parasites. I've found that once cold weather calves get dried up and a belly full that they take off and never look back.

[ihuntgsps]

The calf was all dried off by momma except for the snow sticking to the legs/belly. Calf tried to get up and got back legs up and struggled with the front while I was watching. I work about 15 miles from home so cannot check again until noon today. Hopefully all is well. Thanks for the info.

[haypoint]

Bring the calf in, Mom will follow. A couple guys with a wheel barrow or any cart you can rig up.
Cows have survived as domesticated animals for thousands of years. The animals that survived on their own in your state are called Bison.
The calf might survive out in the pasture. If he has survived so far and the weather doesn't get worse, he might make it. However, it looks like you are getting a storm by Christmas eve.
If the calf needs medical attention out in the pasture, what then? Every day that passes that calf gets harder to move.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Bring the calf in, Mom will follow. A couple guys with a wheel barrow or any cart you can rig up.
Cows have survived as domesticated animals for thousands of years. The animals that survived on their own in your state are called Bison.
The calf might survive out in the pasture. If he has survived so far and the weather doesn't get worse, he might make it. However, it looks like you are getting a storm by Christmas eve.
If the calf needs medical attention out in the pasture, what then? Every day that passes that calf gets harder to move.

The cow already has access to the shed. When she is comfy with motherhood she will bring baby up and introduce it to the herd.

[haypoint]

I don't know what your shed looks like or how much muck surrounds it. Do you have other cattle in this pasture and at the shed?
In my situation, it gets mucky on the barn side of the pasture and the barn stalls are dry. Perhaps you have a large concrete pad that you keep scraped clean.

Everyone does things based on what they've seen and experienced. Everyone has differing advice.
If you leave him out there and he survives, I'm wrong. If you go out in the morning and his front legs are frozen solid or he got stuck and trampled in the muck around the shed, you get a cold snap or snowstorm in the next month or so that kills him, then I was right.
If you bring them into the barn and you catch the beginnings of scours, I'm right. If you don't medicate, don't worm and don't do vacinations, and the calf gets along just fine, then we can assume he would have done fine outside.

For the benifit of shared knowledge, please keep us posted.

[ihuntgsps]

I am on my way home now and will check the calf soon. Currently the cow and calf are in a completely seperate pasture from the other cows and have a south face cattle shed to themselves. partial concrete floor with the balance in dirt/grass/snow. moved them to this area about 2 weeks ago so it is still pretty clean and no mud and muck (everything is frozen).
Have straw in the corner of the shed that is clean but they haven't used it. was hoping she would calve in that area but she had other ideas. The only access they have to the other cows is through the fence on one side of the pasture. I will keep everyone posted.

[ksfarmer]

Originally Posted by ihuntgsps

The calf was all dried off by momma except for the snow sticking to the legs/belly. Calf tried to get up and got back legs up and struggled with the front while I was watching. I work about 15 miles from home so cannot check again until noon today. Hopefully all is well. Thanks for the info.

I sure would have felt more confident leaving them if I had seen the calf fully on his feet and nursing before I left.

[ihuntgsps]

Just back from checking and all is not well. Calf is stretched out in the snow and seems very weak and not able to lift head up or get up. struggled a little and made some noise but never even got close to getting to its feet. Momma is very protective and wouldn't let me near enough to touch the calf. Called a buddy and he is gonna help me in about an hour or so. We will try to drive back to her and get a rope around the cow so one of us can grab the calf. get it warmed up and try to get it fed. If anyone has any ideas of the best way to seperate a crazy momma from her baby please let me know. So far our possible plans include:
1.drive truck up and try to chase momma off enough to grab calf.
2.drive up and lasso cow and then get calf.
3.lasso calf and try to drag it under a fence 20 yards away and hope the cow doesn't come over or through the fence.
Please feel free to tell me how dumb any of these ideas are or offer better suggestions.

[tinknal]

Best bet is to drive up and pull calf into vehicle. Might have to drive a few circles around calf to get her separated. Bear in mind the cow may go half nuts trying to figure out where the calf is. She might start running fences. If you have a small sled you might be able to get the calf in the sled and tow it to the barn with your truck. The cow would follow right along.

On the other hand, put the calf in the back of the truck with the tailgate down so cow can still see calf. She might follow you to the barn. One of you would want to stay in the back with the calf.

[agmantoo]

Certainly two adults should not be concerned with a single dexter cow. This is partly why you have dexters isn't it? Take the vehicle as close as possible and pick up the calf and put it in the bed of truck. One of you hop into the truck with the calf and have a blanket to toss over the calf and start getting it warm. The cow will follow if you drive very slow. It is imperative to get the calf thoroughly warm. Once it is warm put the calf in the shelter with its mom. Verify that the calf nurses. If it does not nurse you must feed it somehow. Preferably by milking its mom. Time is now the issue. The calf needs the colostrum ASAP.

[Callieslamb]

If I had a dime for every time a momma cow chased me to the barn because I took her calf....! I wouldn't wait for the friend. That calf is in a bad spot. Whack that momma on the nose a few times -stomp your feed and get that calf in the truck.

We used to bring them in stretched across our laps on a 4 wheeler - momma bawling and chasing behind us like a mad cow!

[Cliff]

deleted

[ksfarmer]

You have to get some warm colostrum and electrolytes into that calf immediately, . Don't let the cow bluff you. Get him in the pick-up with blankets or on the floorboard by the heater vent. Tube him if you have to, but get something down him. Save the calf first, worry about momma later., If she will follow to the barn,fine. Once the calf is on his feet, he will bawl and she will find him. I would give him something for pneumonia also.
edit: looking at the timeline, I suspect my advice is too late, if this has not been done earlier. Please let us know how things are going.

[randiliana]

Well, I'm sure this advice is a little late, but maybe it will help the next one..... Hopefully you managed to save this guy.

A snowbank is pretty much the worst place to be born into. Sure, there may be no diseases there, but it takes a pretty hardy calf to get up and going in a snow bank, and a pretty darn good and aggressive mama to get him going. Just imagine being in a nice warm bath (in your clothes) and then, stepping right out of that into a snowbank, then roll around in it for a while, at right around freezing, or better yet, send your 50lb kid out like that. Then, add in any sort of a wind. How long would you last in that?? Smaller calves have an even harder time getting going in cold weather, simply on the fact that they have a smaller body and cool down quicker. Trust me, I know all about calving in cold weather! Hypothermia can set in awfully fast in newborns. After all, where they came from they really didn't have to do anything, they were fed, and had their temperature regulated for them. Then they get dropped into the world, and have to figure out how to get up, get food and their body has to learn how to regulate temperature. Quite a job when they are dropped into nice weather, let alone cold stuff.

The minute they enter the world, especially into cold weather their body temperature starts to drop, the colder they get, the slower they get, and if they get too cold, they simply can't function, and pretty soon they quit even trying to get up. It takes a lot of energy to try and keep warm, and if they are using all their energy stores to keep warm, they have nothing left to get them up and going. And if they don't get up and going, the don't eat, and don't replenish their energy. It's a rather vicious circle.

The best thing you could have done is to get this calf up to the barn as soon as he hit the ground, hopefully mama would have come with him, but in cold weather we ALWAYS worry about the baby first, and then mama, she can take care of herself. A calf with hypothermia is more prone to sickness, they don't absorb the colostrum as well, and the fact is that they are pretty seriously stressed. Once you have the calf in a draft free, and if possible warm place, then worry about getting mama in. If she came up with you, great, if not, then you will have to get her in. If she comes in relatively easily, great, put her in with her baby, and hopefully nature will take its course and you won't have to do any more. If she's a real b**ch, then, once again, the calf comes first. Get some colostrum into him and get him warmed up and dried up. Boughten colostrum is better than no colostrum, or colostrum recieved too late. Once baby is taken care of try mama again. At this point, you can even use baby to entice her up. Use food, the rest of the herd, whatever it takes. And if she's that bad to deal with, you might want to remember that come culling time. If she's that bad to deal with when you need to, maybe you need to find a different cow.

From the time of birth, the calf has about 6 hours where he readily absorbs the colostrum. The sooner you can get it into him the better. I know that you'll see them say you've got 12 hours, but after about 6 hours their ability to absorb colostrum is greatly reduced. Add in the fact that a cold calf doesn't absorb as well, and you get the picture. If a calf isn't up and going in less than 2 hours, you should be ready to help out. In cold weather, 2 hours is long enough for hypothermia to set in and once it does, your chances of saving the calf drop off.

Good luck, I hope you managed to save this guy.

[ksfarmer]

Originally Posted by randiliana

Well, I'm sure this advice is a little late, but maybe it will help the next one..... Hopefully you managed to save this guy.

A snowbank is pretty much the worst place to be born into. Sure, there may be no diseases there, but it takes a pretty hardy calf to get up and going in a snow bank, and a pretty darn good and aggressive mama to get him going. Just imagine being in a nice warm bath (in your clothes) and then, stepping right out of that into a snowbank, then roll around in it for a while, at right around freezing, or better yet, send your 50lb kid out like that. Then, add in any sort of a wind. How long would you last in that?? Smaller calves have an even harder time getting going in cold weather, simply on the fact that they have a smaller body and cool down quicker. Trust me, I know all about calving in cold weather! Hypothermia can set in awfully fast in newborns. After all, where they came from they really didn't have to do anything, they were fed, and had their temperature regulated for them. Then they get dropped into the world, and have to figure out how to get up, get food and their body has to learn how to regulate temperature. Quite a job when they are dropped into nice weather, let alone cold stuff.

The minute they enter the world, especially into cold weather their body temperature starts to drop, the colder they get, the slower they get, and if they get too cold, they simply can't function, and pretty soon they quit even trying to get up. It takes a lot of energy to try and keep warm, and if they are using all their energy stores to keep warm, they have nothing left to get them up and going. And if they don't get up and going, the don't eat, and don't replenish their energy. It's a rather vicious circle.

The best thing you could have done is to get this calf up to the barn as soon as he hit the ground, hopefully mama would have come with him, but in cold weather we ALWAYS worry about the baby first, and then mama, she can take care of herself. A calf with hypothermia is more prone to sickness, they don't absorb the colostrum as well, and the fact is that they are pretty seriously stressed. Once you have the calf in a draft free, and if possible warm place, then worry about getting mama in. If she came up with you, great, if not, then you will have to get her in. If she comes in relatively easily, great, put her in with her baby, and hopefully nature will take its course and you won't have to do any more. If she's a real b**ch, then, once again, the calf comes first. Get some colostrum into him and get him warmed up and dried up. Boughten colostrum is better than no colostrum, or colostrum recieved too late. Once baby is taken care of try mama again. At this point, you can even use baby to entice her up. Use food, the rest of the herd, whatever it takes. And if she's that bad to deal with, you might want to remember that come culling time. If she's that bad to deal with when you need to, maybe you need to find a different cow.

From the time of birth, the calf has about 6 hours where he readily absorbs the colostrum. The sooner you can get it into him the better. I know that you'll see them say you've got 12 hours, but after about 6 hours their ability to absorb colostrum is greatly reduced. Add in the fact that a cold calf doesn't absorb as well, and you get the picture. If a calf isn't up and going in less than 2 hours, you should be ready to help out. In cold weather, 2 hours is long enough for hypothermia to set in and once it does, your chances of saving the calf drop off.

Good luck, I hope you managed to save this guy.

Randiliana gives the best advice I've seen on this thread. I would hope everyone who is calving in winter weather will read this post and heed some very good advice. I calved several thousands of calves in winter weather and it is always a very critical time . A newborn calf is a wonderous thing, but very fragile if they don't get started out right.

[Cliff]

I'm so sorry for my advice to leave them alone, I missed the part about the snow being so deep. That would cause a mechanical problem for getting up and trying to nurse, obviously.
We don't interfere with our cow/calves unless we know they haven't nursed. They're often born in colder weather than you mentioned but we don't have to deal with the snow.
Again, sorry. I try to read carefully but totally missed the boat on this one.

[ihuntgsps]

Thank you all for your advice. I hate to report that the calf did not live.
This will definitely be a learning experience for me and I will plan to lock any expectant cows in the barn in the future if the weather is similar to what we had this last week.

[ksfarmer]

Don't beat yourself up over this. We all make mistakes and the secret is to learn from them. Like one oldtimer told me, "If you don't want to loose any, don't have any." I like my tagline, there is a lot of truth in it.