USDA de-certifies organic dairy

[furholler]

I don't know if this is the right place for this or if it should be in general chat. But, I read this article, which I would place a link to but can't copy the link. I'd type it out but something isn't right. Anyway, it come from Alan Nation of the Stockman Grassfarmer, a reputable source. You can read it here Scroll down to the title,"Tell me again why we trust the usda organic label". Enjoy.

[furholler]

I wanted to add that this kind of thing is the very reason that we need to fight for, protect and patronize local farmers. That is the only way to be assured of safe, healthy, unadulterated, tamper free, wholesome, non-geneticized food.

[genebo]

http://wincustomersusa.com/stockman/...&id=0&Itemid=9

[agmantoo]

This should link you to Alan's article
http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/Allan_Blog.html

[furholler]

Thank you men. I don't know why, but I couldn't copy the address.

[springvalley]

That is why I have not made the leap into the organic certified dairy, that and the big check they want along with it. Horizon has always been a thorn in the organic side of everyone. I don`t know how(well I think maybe I can figure it out) the big guys can get way with what they do. We have to have everything approved and they check everything you buy and use around here, so maybe each state is different. I call them the organic police, and man the records you have to keep. We know we are organic and the things we do , we just can`t say we are organic. Did you know the government has the trademark on the organic seal. Thanks Marc

[onthespot]

I wonder if you could lable you feed organic feed, etc... without calling your product organic if that would get you into any trouble.

[tinknal]

IMO sustainable is way more important than organic.

[haypoint]

USDA's desire to be able to track a disease outbreak, nais, is one of the hottest topics. Some small farmers have committed their lives to fight this governmental intrusion.

There was an outcry when the Penn. Dept. of Ag shut down an Amish store that was selling un-pasturized processed milk products, well beyond his license. More government intrusion.

Yet, when a dairy violates the rules of organic certification, people want the USDA to be down their throats.

Regulation, no regulation, government oversight, no oversight. USDA seldom fines farmers, contrary to urban legend. Mostly warnings.

Getting your milk from local farmers is no assurance of bacteria or disease free milk. Good intentions is not an anti-bacterial.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by tinknal

IMO sustainable is way more important than organic.

I agree, but even better is combining the best of organic with the best of sustainable. It's being done in a few places. India has some remarkable projects going on.

[furholler]

Peronally, I'm with Joel Salatin when he says he's "beyond organic".

[furholler]

Originally Posted by haypoint

USDA's desire to be able to track a disease outbreak, nais, is one of the hottest topics. Some small farmers have committed their lives to fight this governmental intrusion.

There was an outcry when the Penn. Dept. of Ag shut down an Amish store that was selling un-pasturized processed milk products, well beyond his license. More government intrusion.

Yet, when a dairy violates the rules of organic certification, people want the USDA to be down their throats.

Regulation, no regulation, government oversight, no oversight. USDA seldom fines farmers, contrary to urban legend. Mostly warnings.

Getting your milk from local farmers is no assurance of bacteria or disease free milk. Good intentions is not an anti-bacterial.

You must be a dairy farmer. Certainly there is a certain amount of "buyer beware". I think we can all aknowledge that. However, to quote Mr. Salatin yet again, "everything I want to do is illegal". The flaw in your argument is that large farms usually are slapped on the wrist with a warning, true, but the small, family guy is put out of business. There is a problem with the system, surely you can see that. I have some friends in Springfield Mo, going through a battle with the law right now. They are in danger of losing much, no mere warning here, the state DA is in on this with a lawsuit against them. My point with the article is that we continue to trust the USDA and they continue to fail in their hypocrisy and grossly overstep their bounds.

[haypoint]

If we put aside a strong class envy and a sweeping hatred for all things government, we can look at facts.

The USDA inspects thousands of things every day. They don't check the millions of things produced or imported, but they do check samples from those products.

Some people claim to want a food system that closes the door on federal inspection, a sort of "buyer beware". They want to push aside standards and regulation. They imagine that every rule is meant to hurt them.

Most consumers want assurance that their food is safe. They want standards and regulations. They react (over react) when the USDA discovers a food product that fails those standfards or a food producer that fails to meet those regulations. They want more USDA inspections.

While most sub-standard food products get stopped far before it reaches the consumer, those rare cases where contaminated food reaches the store shelves, it is national news.

Like that contaminated hamburger, anyone that can find their nose with both hands knows that the beef was safe. Only a small amount was actually contaminated. Even then, if the consumer had simply been told to cook their hamburger, it would have been safe. But the consumer wants more assurance than that. So it was recalled.

Pig farmers are still suffering from the drop in pork sales due to the crazy belief that H1N1 was pig flu and there was a danger of getting it from the pork. Consumer confidence is important to the market. Anyone that sells products off the farm is a part of this consumer market.

I don't believe that large farms get a "pass" while small farms are put out of business. That stirs the emotions of this group of small farmers, but the facts are that the USDA seldom fines anyone, except in gross neglect or repeat offenses. The public demands high standards and that results in regulations for us.
Free country. Get up to standard or keep your products on farm or quit. Those that follow the rules don't want junk ruining consumer confidence.

[valcwby01]

Haypoint, I don't mean to point fingers, but you COULD NOT BE FARTHER FROM THE MARK IF YOU TRIED!!!!!! My father used to own and operate a small meat processing site, that I worked with him as a teenager. We had a USDA inpector that inspected EVERY SINGLE CARCASS with a fine tooth comb and limited our capacity to process. I only disagree with the fact that large processing plants near the feedlots have A LOT LOWER RATIO OF INSPECTORS TO ANIMALS TO POSSIBLY EVER INSPECT EACH AND EVERY CARCASS!!!! Making this a danger to our general food supply and, blantantly illustrated in this very short illustration, the big boys DO IN FACT get a "free pass"

[springvalley]

Haypoint, I think I have to agree with Val on this one. I to think that the meat plants get away with more than the mom and pop butchers. And it seems to me there are more poeple are getting sick from the big companies than the little backyard farmer. The EPA has been an SOB to some of the small farms around here. A few have had to shut down because they demand more from them than they can afford to comply with, so they have no choice but to shut down. anyway Haypoint you did make alot of good points , but I still think I can take better care of my small herd of cows than the big boys. Well gotta go, Later guys and gals. Thanks Marc.

[haypoint]

We could go back and forth on this and cite examples that support both positions.
Back to the topic of this thread.
Should USDA butt out of Organic certification? Should a business be allowed to carry the organic label and violate the organic standards? Should each grower set their own standards for organic production? Should we have a national standard? Who should decide what the standards are? Who should do inspections and void certification?
Can any organization inspect every grower, every day and insure absolutly that 100% of everything is pure and wholesome? Can we always depend on locally grown food being safe and pure? If we include prayer and scripture in our advertisements, does that make our products safer?

In my world there are good and bad in most things.

[ozark_jewels]

This is why we are a "natural" dairy, no longer certified organic.
Our pastures, hay are organic and we are as natural in our herd management as possible. Of course, milking, making cheese and selling to the public, we are state and federally inspected. But that only goes so far. There are a lot of dirty practices that we could easily get by with, even being inspected, if our moral sense would let us. Mostly, it comes down to the individual and how much it means to them to be the best they can be.

But I will not even try to jump through the certified "organic" hoops.
Organic really doesn't mean anything to me unless I know the farm. There are "organic" confinement farms where the animals never see grass. What a joke.
Being "organic" in this day and age, has nothing to do with being "natural".

[linn]

The only way to be assured of getting quality food products is to produce as much of it as possible yourself. We have a local dairy that went wholesale and now sells to many of the chain groceries in our area. They also have their own retail store on the site of the dairy. DH got a look at their milk barn and milking practices when he went to pick up a couple of bottle calves. From what he told me, I would never buy milk from them. Buying locally does not always guarantee a quality product. Take a look at the premises and procedures if possible, before buying.
We have milked our own cows for years. We don't sell even to the neighbors because I don't want a visit from Uncle Sam. I am sure that I am cleaner in my milk handling than that dairy, but I don't want to take a chance of anyone suing me, claiming they got sick from drinking our milk.

[furholler]

Originally Posted by haypoint

We could go back and forth on this and cite examples that support both positions.
Back to the topic of this thread.
Should USDA butt out of Organic certification? Should a business be allowed to carry the organic label and violate the organic standards? Should each grower set their own standards for organic production? Should we have a national standard? Who should decide what the standards are? Who should do inspections and void certification?
Can any organization inspect every grower, every day and insure absolutly that 100% of everything is pure and wholesome? Can we always depend on locally grown food being safe and pure? If we include prayer and scripture in our advertisements, does that make our products safer?

In my world there are good and bad in most things.

I guess my actual point to the whole thing is that the "Organic" label that many people pay a premium for is not all its cracked up to be. And that the system, as a whole, is flawed. More government is never the answer. The USDA continuously fails and we continue to fund them. Why? A woman in Minnesota got paralized from e-coli in Cargill beef. Upon investigation, the beef came from various sources and did not match the label on the package. The USDA turned a blind eye to all of this. Why? Because it is Cargill. They have a huge lobby, to say the least.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by furholler

I guess my actual point to the whole thing is that the "Organic" label that many people pay a premium for is not all its cracked up to be.

I wholeheartedly agree.