Farm produced bull

[agmantoo]

Thought that I would share a pic of a young bull that was produced on my place and raised on grass alone. His first year of life he had very limited forage as we were in the worst drought in 50 + years. He is 7/8ths Angus and !/8th Murray Grey and is approximately 2 years old. Currently he is on loan to a farmer in a nearby county.

[TSYORK]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Thought that I would share a pic of a young bull that was produced on my place and raised on grass alone. His first year of life he had very limited forage as we were in the worst drought in 50 + years. He is 7/8ths Angus and !/8th Murray Grey and is approximately 2 years old. Currently he is on loan to a farmer in a nearby county.

WOW. He ought to keep the ladies happy. Nice stock you got there agman!

[farmmaid]

Lovely, lovely animal!

[ramiller5675]

I am interested in the details of how you bred and raised your bull.

Did you breed a number of superior cows, then select a few possible bull candidates from the resulting calves, and eventually keep the best performing one?

How did you evaluate the bull calves to determine which ones were replacement bull candidates?

[agmantoo]

ramiller5675
I do not have registered cows but i do have a registered bull. The cows are commercial Angus with the initial ones bought as a group of feeder heifers. I culled from these females over the years slowly eliminating the ones that I did not want. I wanted the frame 4 or smaller cows with decent udders as the primary choice. If the cows were flighty or aggressive I culled them also. Cows (fence jumpers) that refused to stay in the minimum cross fencing that I use for rotational grazing were also removed. I have always bought what I thought were good bulls. Mostly selecting for calving ease. I have culled these bulls also primarily for their inability to maintain body condition off grass. The bulls come from conventional producers and were fed grain prior to coming to my place. There is no grain or hay here, only good forage. As the calves are born I check out the males and the females as I also keep replacement females. The bull in the pic is only the second bull that I have retained. The first one was sold. I was wanting to see if I could get a bull that thrived under my feeding conditions. When the calves are born I look closely at the cow to observe her teats and udder. I look at the calf's size and its alertness. On occasion I will spot a calf that possesses a number of desired traits. It is this combination of desired traits that influence my decision not to castrate. The pictured bull is out of one of my older cows and is not closely related to the heifers in the herd. I have not kept his mother's offspring mainly due to the chocolate coloring. The market wants black. I am getting some calves now from the Murray Grey bull I bought last year. The calves are OK but the bull is marginally holding condition under the circumstances here at the farm. If things do not improve the MG bull will be gone and the 1/8th MG bull in the pic will become the herd sire. Thanks for your interest.

[ds40]

How do you handle the retained heifers until you are ready to breed them? Do you seperate the bull or the heifers?

[agmantoo]

The cattle all comprise one herd. Most all the bull calves are castrated when they are a few days old. If a male is left intact the herd bull will not permit him around a cow in heat. All retained heifers get bred as they start cycling. I have always had the herd together and this has never created a problem. Most heifers calve around their second birthday. Calves are born throughout the year and I sell feeder calves approximately 4 times a year. Doing so avoids selling into a low or high market and usually gives me an average of the market for the year. It creates a smoother, more uniform cash flow also.

[Menglish]

agmantoo, I'm new to owning cows and I've always been told NOT to breed until the calf will not be born until the heifer turns 2. Do the Angus not cycle until they are older? I was told my Dexter's would cycle as early as 6 months. The heifer I raised this year came in heat at 7 months.

Just curious is all.

Forgot to mention that is a great looking bull. I too am grass feed only...of course hay in the winter. So far I'm very pleased with the condition of my herd on grass as that was one of my reasons for selecting them.

Mike

[agmantoo]

Menglish,
I do not monitor the breeding that closely but I do observe the ear tag when the heifers give birth. I notice that they are usually two years old plus or minus a month or two. I want a calf on the heifers second birthday. I would like the heifer to weigh 750 lbs when she is bred. I have no explanation of why the timing is what it is in my herd. I just attribute it to nature and the heifers cycle when they are of sufficient size to have a calf naturally. I never save a heifer that needs assistance. She will be sold when her calf is marketed. During the time I have had cattle I have only assisted less than a handful of cows. I remain adamant in my not becoming a midwife to a cow. If a cow cannot give birth on her own I feel it is due to mans meddling with nature. I do cull hard and I feel I benefit from doing so. I have never had a vet to the farm. I work hard to keep the herd healthy and healthy animals do not need a vets service.
I cannot answer your Dexter question, sorry.

[ds40]

Are retained heifers weaned by seperating from the cows or weaned by the cow?

[agmantoo]

Weaned by the cow prior to calving if retained. Weaned and sent to the sell barn if not being retained. It is always one herd, one paddock here.

[wstevenl]

Have heard people say that a heifer will not breed too early if kept with the herd all the time as agmantoo does. People call this a "family herd" and it is done with dexters too. Moving bulls in and out or bringing in a new bull could mess this up. It doesn't always work with all animals though. I bought a weanling Galloway last year and she was bred way too early by her sire.

[KSALguy]

just a theory mind you, but here it goes,

naturally fed animals ie fed grass ONLY with NO supplementation, and kept in as close to natural conditions both managment wise and socially speeking, the animals should reproduce NATURALLY as well, Agmantoo keeps his herd in as natural of a state as anyone i have ever seen, all grass fed all the time, one herd kept togather all the time, and a smaller even body type even throughout, there is very little man made meddling going on here,

herds kept with supplimental feeding would produce a heifer that would mature hormonally faster than her body can accomodate,

bulls kept separate or moved back and forth will be more sex crazed and breed anything possible,

also larger bodied breeds have been man made into something not able to produce in a more natural environment requiering more food and more assistance to survive,

a wild herd of cattle would function very simmilar to the way Agmantoos herd functions,

[Menglish]

Thanks all. You've given me somethign to think about.

Agmantoo the things you are doing with your herd in regards to not becoming a midwife are right along the same methods I'm striving for. I agree with everything you've posted!

Mike

[Welshmom]

I knew a guy who ran his cattle the same way - all one big herd, bull always in with the cows and heifers. These were commercial angus and bwf. I don't know if he ever fed grain or not.
I bought a group of 40 feeders from him, and one heifer was pregnant. I wasn't thrilled, as this is not what I was expecting, and wanted to feed them out. However, he didn't want her back, and swore he never had any calving problems. She calved just fine. She must have been right around her 2nd b-day.

I did have a problem, however, with her unwillingness to nurse the calf. She kicked the dickens out of him, and I had to tie her up in a stall to get her to catch on that this was a good idea. I believe she may have been a better mother if she had other cows with calves around to learn from, but she was now in a group of feeders. I sold her and the calf that year.

BTW, that is a very nice looking bull. Very good capacity.