Help me decide what to do about the hay field?

[Cheryl aka JM]

This is probably gonna be long~

I'm not really sure where to begin~ I've got lots of questions on my mind. I’ll start with the questions and then explain the problem. That way if you want to skip the very long post you can just answer the questions maybe? Thanks!

1. How long does it need to be not raining before you cut hay and bale hay?

2. What is a reasonable cost for baling in large round bales?

3. When is the best time to cut hay that is just orchard grass? (as in how late in the year…..do I need to worry about how much re-growth time I have before the first frost~ especially if I plan to run my calves on it some this winter?)

This is the situation~ and an additional questions that won’t make sense unless you read the very long post:

I moved here in Sept 07. I didn’t have any livestock yet and didn’t know what I was doing at all (don’t know a whole lot more now!). I introduced myself to the neighbors who are very nice. We talked about how I wanted to finish fencing the upper pasture (10 acre) and get some cattle of my own soon, but I didn’t know how to do anything yet. The neighbor wanted to cut the hay in the upper pasture (10 acre) and I didn’t have a problem with that~ it needed to be cut to keep it from turning into scrub brush and he needed the hay for his cows. I didn’t have any livestock so the neighbor kept all that hay. In Spring 08 the neighbor asked if he could put his cows on that pasture since I still didn’t have any livestock. About 150 foot of fence needed to be put in and 3 gates. I paid for the materials but the neighbor helped me put them up and showed me how to hang field fence. He put his cows on the pasture. He cut the hay 3 times in the summer of 08~ he never told me when he was going to cut it he just went out and did it 3 times in 08’. He did give me a roll here and there when I needed one for my chickens or my goats. I was starting with goats and chickens, building shelters and fencing the lower 2 wooded pastures in the summer of 08~ I still didn’t need that pasture…….but I was kind of uncomfortable that he didn’t leave me any of the hay from any of the 3 cuts in 08’ and I had to ask him to give me a roll when I needed one. I hate to admit I paid to grain the goats more than I should have cuz I was uncomfortable asking for hay from my own field last Winter~ he was always nice about bringing me a roll……but I would have preferred if he had just left me 4 or 5 rolls since we had discussed how I would need some of that hay in the Winter of 08. All this time he was keeping his 6 head of cattle on my pasture pretty much all the time and he purchased 9 Boer Goats he keeps on his 10 Acres.

So this Spring I was finally ready to start with cows. I bought 4 bottle calves (and y’all have helped me raise them~ THANK YOU!) I told the neighbor a couple days before I bought them that I was getting them and that while they would be too small to put into the upper pasture right away~ I reminded him that I would need that upper pasture for my cows when they started to get some size on them. At or about the same time I asked him about cutting the hay and explained that I would need at least half the hay crop this year for my cows and my goats as I would have 4 cows and 8 goats to feed this Winter. He explained to me that he didn’t need any hay this winter because he has plenty from last year still. Cutting and baling my hay was $15 a roll. I was a bit taken back~ but okay. He doesn’t do the cutting and baling by himself~ he does it with another man and I understand he has to be paid for his time because he did not get all the hay off my field from the last 4 cuts in 07’ and o8’. I need the hay and I don’t have the equipment to cut and roll it myself. He cut the first cut about 4 months ago and a sudden rain for 8 days straight hit before it got baled and ruined it. He didn’t charge me for the cutting work he did…..but I didn’t get any hay either.

That was about 4 months ago……….the hay needs to be cut. I need the hay~ I don’t have ANY hay at all. My lower two pastures are getting overgrazed between my goats and cows. About a month ago he moved his cattle off the pasture and I quickly called and thanked him~ reminded him how badly I NEED the hay from that field for my animals this winter. I felt bad about it~ and still do since he has MORE stock between his 9 goats and 6 head of cattle than I do and his 10 acre is already looking overgrazed to me~ but it IS my pasture.

I need the hay. I need the pasture. It is MY pasture. But I want to be a good neighbor. I agreed in the Spring to pay him to cut the hay~ I didn’t get any hay from it but I did agree. I’m WILLING to pay now to cut the hay……………

But it’s been raining~ the last several weeks has been 5-7 dry days followed by 5-7 wet days. So maybe he’s not cut the hay or returned my calls because the weather is not acceptable for it?

The neighbor is working out of town now and only home a few days a week……so I’m worried that if we get a good opportunity to cut he won’t be able to when the weather is right………..

I asked him several weeks ago when he was going to cut the hay and he told me he would when it was ready…………..

I called last weekend and left a message for him asking when he was going to cut the hay and he hasn’t returned the call.

Two other neighbors have given me phone numbers for local people who cut and bale hay……(one does it for $10 a roll....I don't know what the other does it for)...…I NEED the hay but I don’t want to take the job away from the first neighbor who I would very much like to keep friendly relations with………..so………..

The three questions at the start of the post AND

4. IF I hire someone else to come out and cut the hay……..what do I say to the neighbor that will not cause resentment? Keeping in mind that my husband is already feeling pretty resentful about this neighbor using our pasture, charging so much to cut it when he doesn't need hay and not communicating with us when we need the hay from it~ and while the neighbor does not need hay THIS winter because he has all the hay from last year off my pasture………his 10 acre is overstocked and he will probably need some of the hay off my pasture NEXT winter.

[RosewoodfarmVA]

My opinion....

Being in the lower south you are in a good situation to practice rotational grazing following Agmantoo's style put forth in the sticky on that subject. I should think that with less expense and perhaps equal or a little more time and effort you can feed that grass all winter with the animals doing the harvesting, no need for someone to bale it. A few hundred $$ in fencing and you'll be all set to harvest that hay using MOOpower instead of horsepower! With a good stand of stockpiled grass it should carry your several calves all winter.

[LibertyWool]

Up north, here in Maine, I can cut hay in the summer the day after a rain (assuming the ground is not saturated like it was most of this summer). In summer I need three days of good weather in a row. Come September, I need 5 days of good weather to dry it down. The problem tends to be that the days are shorter, the temp is cooler, and we have a lot of dew that interferes with drying. As for price, $10 - $15 sounds ok. Here they cost around $30-$40 on average, but that is buying them from someone. When I had someone hay for me, we split the hay, so you are paying less than 1/2 price....

I think you need to just be more assertive. It is your field and if he is not calling you back, then get someone else to do it. Just be clear with him. Just tell him like it is, I need to get this done, so I am taking care of it. And next year, I need that pasture for my animals, so you will have to find somewhere else for them. If he has hard feelings, so be it.

[agmantoo]

Once you learn how to rotational graze you will not have to bale and you will not experience the frustration nor the expense associated with the task. As RosewoodfarmVA suggested, read the sticky. If that interest you, I will help.

[Allen W]

You need to find somebody that is there all the time do the hay.

Next question is the hay worth cutting, will it meet your animals nutritional needs? If it has matured and made seed it will probably be low in protein and quality. Growing calves need good quality feed the smaller they are the better they need.

Another question would be how much new growth is there that you would loose cutting it or will come back after you cut. It might be worth letting your livestock graze what they can off the hay fields. Then take the baling money and buy some better quality hay, along with some protein and grain to supplement the standing forage on the hay field.

Didn't really answer any of your questions just trying to give another way to look at it.

[haypoint]

Humidity maters more than how long after a rain. If we get a light rain and a couple cloudy days with lots of dew, it may take 3 or 4 days. If we get a good rain and the front blows through with a low humidity wind and plenty of sun, I can cut the next day.

You have found the reason people that have just a few acres buy way more hay equipment than they need. Hay needs to be made at the correct time. Your hay becomes a "when I get time" job for your neighbor. He's got nothing to loose if your hay doesn't get made. Perhaps he can sell more of his hay to you if yours doesn't get cut or gets rained on. After a few years of frustration, people realize the only way to get your hay made is to do it yourself. Knowing that, you can work to avoid getting to that point.

If you are lucky enough to find someone that will get your hay made and does a good job, reward them. Help get their hay in, pay them too much, bring them a pie every month, etc.

I know one person that rents their hay field. Same price each year. Part of that rent is big round bales of hay. If he goofs off or it is a bad year, he still has to get your hay to you. This works because it puts the responsibility on the farmer and off your back.

[Cheryl aka JM]

I beleive it has gone to seed. It's very tall in some spots~ very short in others.

It's supposed to rain again tomorrow (of course!) So I think I'll spend the day reading the rotational grazing sticky and trying to understand it. I have a lot of questions about rotational grazing but I don't want y'all to re-invent the wheel here.......I'll sit down and read the sticky before I start asking questions! If I go that route I'll still have to buy some hay~ I use it for bedding in the chicken and goat shelters~ and the goats will need to be fed through winter........but hay here is only going for $20 to $25 a bale so I could get a few bales cheaper than baling my pasture.

Thanks~ I'll be back with more questions after I read the information already given in the sticky up top.