milk replacer vs. whole milk

[vaponydoc]

I have (quite sadly) an orphan calf to raise after losing our Jersey cow last week. I have been using colostrum and gradually shifting to milk replacer.

I may have a source of inexpensive, raw whole milk from a local dairy, not waste milk but from the bulk tank. I would prefer to feed at least a portion of real milk and not all replacer.

Does anyone have input on using whole milk for all or part of the calf's diet?

Any recommended supplements if feeding whole milk alone (like selenium, etc.)? I saw one supplement called Calf Milk Mate for calves being fed whole milk but don't know if that's necessary.

Also, I am a proponent of raw milk but don't know the health status of cows at this dairy. Pasteurizing is not a great option due to time involved so I wonder what folks think about feeding raw. Hopefully I can get info from the farmer about any herd health issues he has but I don't know him so don't know how forthcoming he's likely to be.

Thanks,
Anna

[RosewoodfarmVA]

Well, when a calf drinks from it's mama, it's not pasteurized either! Of course if you're getting it from the bulk tank it's really a mix of 100 cows' milk! So any sick cow might be passing it on to your calf. We have used milk replacer for years and find that it does a good job, though the calves on it don't bulk up as quick as a calf on mama. We have a friend that raised some on local milk, and found it worked well, and was cheaper as they got it really cheap from the farm. Milk replacer will run you about $50 a bag. We use 1 bag per calf. Sometimes a poor calf will go a little longer on milk.

The biggest problem I see with using milk from a dairy is that any sick cow in that dairy will pass along it's bacteria to your calf. Of course the benefits are better quality milk fat, and the beneficial bacteria in whole fresh milk. So it really depends on how impressed you are with the dairy cleanliness and health.

[Chixarecute]

Calves have been fed raw since the beginning of time...the issue, as you have already identified, is the potential for the source to have contamination issues in handling.

See if the farm has a web site, check to see if it celebrates a good health status, ie no Johne's disease. Ask if you can visit the farm, (you may be interested in another calf...?) check out the sanitation. Are the cows pastured, in a confinement lot, dirt crusted on the tail, flank, udder? bright eyed, curious, hair with a gloxx to it. Any old carcasses just hauled off to the side? You could ask the farmer some questions, too, about "things you've heard"...ie if your calf scours how should you've handle it, is selenium deficiency an issue in our area, which vet he recommends? You could ask what his cell counts are in the tank - somatic cell (mastitis indicator - under 200,00 is good), plate count (bacteria) tho' I don't remember the scaling for that.

I don't recall selenium being (as much of) an issue if the dam has had an adequate suply of selenium during gestation, when the calf is building muscle. If you decide the raw is good quality (again, from the tank, not from his mastitis cows), and can afford all you need, you can always supplement selenium with a shot of Bo-Se or similar.

If that is the route you go, make the transition gradually, over 4-5 days, so the calf's gut bacteria can adapt. Take the time to feed it warm (ie warmed up, not left out on the counter to come to room temp), instead of cold, during the first week.

[Chixarecute]

IF you decide to go with milk replacer, higher protein, lower fiber is important during the first 4-6 weeks. It's also more expensive. The cheapest milk replacer is not fit for calves, IMO.

[sammyd]

How could natural whole milk be a problem?
You are thinking too hard.
If it is cheaper per gallon then go with it.
No supplements, no worries, warm it up and feed away.

[Valmai]

Real milk from the cow is better for your calf than the best CMR (IMO). Mastitis in the milk is not a problem for the calf's health, although it may not like the taste. When I get raw milk from the farm for my calves it is mostly from treated cows so has penicillin it in. My calves do just fine on that.

[gone-a-milkin]

I also would think that bulk tank milk would be a better option than MR. Especially if it is less money.

I am sorry you lost your cow too.

[Callieslamb]

Would there be an issue with one day, not having milk from the dairy - as in you can't get to it, or you get there after the truck came? Switching from replacer to whole and back to replacer can be a problem from what I know. If there MIGHT be a time you didn't have it...you might want to mix the whole with replacer. If the source is sound and you can afford it - I would definately feed whole milk. No question.

[mainehomestead]

I would go with the whole milk, as well if possible. If running out could be a problem and you already have the starter you could mix a bit of the starter into the milk, that way the calf is used to a bit of the starter incase you have to switch back for some reason. We got 2 day old calves this spring and fed them a combo of replacer and whole milk. Our problem was that the milk was not always available and I have heard that it can be tough on their stomaches to swith back and forth. That is why we mixed a little starter into the milk. We never had a problem.

[Farm 36]

Keep it simple and fed a bag of milkreplacer the best that you can buy witch will be around $50 for the bag . The whole milk will have a short shelf life and temps will chang and the time and gas involved getting the milk and if you spill milk in the car it will always stink .

[gone-a-milkin]

My cars always stink a little like milk.

[RosewoodfarmVA]

The problem is not with it being natural whole milk. My biggest concern with real milk isn't the milk from one cow, but that you're really getting milk (and bacteria) from 100 cows mixed together! Any one cow that may have a subclinical infection will certainly pass that to your calf. Most large dairies will have a sick cow from time to time and it may not be caught til the tests come back, by which time you have already fed your calf with the high count milk...

[sammyd]

The infection wil not pass through like that.

Do you have an---ea how many calves are raised and thrive on unsaleable milk?

[willow_girl]

How could natural whole milk be a problem?
You are thinking too hard.

You really, really need to educate yourself on Johne's disease. Some studies have indicated a 95%+ infection rate from a single feeding of contaminated milk!

Of course, if it's a steer calf, Johne's isn't as big of an issue (although rate of gain may be affected depending on how early the disease manifests itself, and the bacteria may linger in soil and bedding and infect other animals). If it's a heifer calf that's going to be used for dairy, especially if the milk will be consumed without pasteurization, you really don't want Johne's infection.

The same paratuberculosis bacteria that causes Johne's in cattle also has been isolated in the digestive tracts of humans with Crohn's disease (which manifests itself in humans much as Johne's does in cows -- i.e., digestive tract lesions and chronic diarrhea). Scientists really don't know whether it's possible for humans to contract Crohn's by drinking Johnes-contaminated milk or being exposed to bacteria shed in feces.

More info at: http://www.johnes.org/general/faqs.html

[vaponydoc]

Thank you all for your replies! I did not get to a computer all week, so am just getting to read everyone's comments.

Unfortunately, the whole milk option turned out to not be viable. The calf is doing great so far on save-a-calf milk replacer from one of the local feed stores, but I am looking for a different brand that is soy-free. Our local Southern States only sells medicated replacer which he does not need.

I have been giving him a dollop of homemade yogurt, a bit of the remaining colostrum we had saved, and a glutamine capsule (amino acid) to give his little gi tract some extra help.

Thanks!
Anna

[Farm 36]

Leave the calf on what you are are doing or feeding changing the diet could lead to scours .Sometimes you use the thing that are in front of you and it is better than nothing. Good luck

[Jay]

Farm 36, she lost the cow, so doesn't have a milk supply.....its in the very first sentence she posted.

[Farm 36]

yes she lost the cow and at the time she fed a 2nd choice milk replacer and now want to get a better replacer . If the calf gets scours from the change or changes this is not good but if the calf is healthy and eating good just leave on the current feeding program. The calf is 7 to 10 or more days old the hardest part is over . A calf with scours can get dehydrated and that will end not very well.

[vaponydoc]

Thanks again for advice. He is really thriving on the milk replacer though it's not my first choice since it has soy as 2nd ingredient. We may switch when we need a new bag but will do it very gradually.