New calf questions & concerns

[Ed K]

My Belted Galloway had her Galloway/Angus calf at about 4:30 this afternoon.

1) Calf has stood up a number of times and has found the teats even licked them a bit but hasn't sucked them. It puts its head under the udder and bangs in upwards which looks uncomfortable for the cow because the teats are extremely big and tight looking. I tried directing the calf to the teat but I think it was making the cow distressed so I stopped. The Momma's not really into being handled beyond a touch on the head then withdrawing. The calf is sleeping for 15 minutes then getting up for about 3 minutes or so. I went back out to try to encourage them further but the cow and calf are down now and the cow is currently giving birth to it's placenta. Time for me to stop worrying and let everyone figure things out on their own? Or force my involvement? Mom has had a calf before.

2) Cows roughly 10 month old calf is in the same pasture. Older calf pushes his new sibling and knocks it down with his head or even with his leg. If mom is in the proper position she pushes the older calf away with her head. Do mother and baby need to be separated from the older steer calf?

3) During the birth and afterwards the older calf tried to mount his mother a feew times. I've seen this happen once or twice before but this was several times in an hour. Normal?

Thanks

[agmantoo]

EdK,
Separate the older calf now. The new calf needs to nurse ASAP. Can you confine the cow and new calf to close quarters and if necessary put a halter on the cow to keep her in once place. The cow needs to accept the new calf within 24 hours or less.

[myersfarm]

yes seprate the older calf NOW

new calf needs first milk[ colostrum ] in 6 hours best
12 hours the longest time
24 will not do it any good and it will probally not live past 3 months

[myersfarm]

agmantoo we were typing at the same time but came up with the same answer

tjm

[Ed K]

THanks for the rapid response.

I separated the older calf although I had given him a new section of grass anyway so he was away from mom and baby calf. Now he's separated by electric fence.

I really don't have a barn or stall and the cow is not halter trained so I don't think I can accomplish keeping them together in tight quarters

Mom has never been more than 5 feet from calf. She has been licking him as well as licking his butt while he's in nursing position. Apparently that was effective because he made a small poop. Calf seems to continue laying around a lot for 15 or 20 minutes at a time then up for 3 minutes or so. If I try to lift him up in between he'll stagger around a bit then lay back down to nap. When he gets up on his own he'll nuzzle against her lick her teats but not really wrap his mouth around them. I put my finger in his mouth and he'll suck it a little but not ott strongly. He gets closer to sucking her when I'm not trying to make him do it than when I try to.

Does anything I've said suggest anything else that I should do?

Thanks

[bruce2288]

If you have no way to confine the calf and cow it makes it tough. About the best I could suggest is if the calf hasn't sucked by morning get some colostrum from the vet and feed the calf and hope that he figures it out. How do you catch cattle to sell?

[Ed K]

Originally Posted by bruce2288

If you have no way to confine the calf and cow it makes it tough. About the best I could suggest is if the calf hasn't sucked by morning get some colostrum from the vet and feed the calf and hope that he figures it out. How do you catch cattle to sell?

Bruce,

I'm all of 2 months into cattle ownership. I plan to build a 3 sided shelter before winter and loading to sell is a distant activity. I've been feeding a little grain as treat just to make the cattle follow me around as needed. Is the confinement a necessity in this case if the cow and calf are always nearby each other and the other older calf is separate?

[haypoint]

Without this first milk your beautiful new calf is likely to die. If you cannot get the cow to stay in one place, I don't know how you can keep the calf up and work on getting a teet in it's mouth. You have any trees around your place that you can tie her to? You really don't have much time before this problem solves itself. On trhe plus side, you'll have more milk for your family.
Yes, that last calf should have been weined awhile ago. Two reasons, one you've already figured out. The other is that the important first milk, nessessary for the new calf's survival may have gotten sucked out by the older calf.

[Ed K]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Without this first milk your beautiful new calf is likely to die. If you cannot get the cow to stay in one place, I don't know how you can keep the calf up and work on getting a teet in it's mouth. You have any trees around your place that you can tie her to? You really don't have much time before this problem solves itself. On trhe plus side, you'll have more milk for your family.
Yes, that last calf should have been weined awhile ago. Two reasons, one you've already figured out. The other is that the important first milk, nessessary for the new calf's survival may have gotten sucked out by the older calf.

The other calf has been weaned for months and it didn't suck out any milk from the mom. It tried to knock down the calf and mount the mother.

[bruce2288]

Ed, I posted last night but I guess it didn't go through. If the calf gets to sucking, no you do not need to confine them. What did you find this morning? If he hasn't sucked, I would get some colostrum from the vet or if there is a dairy farm around they often have frozen colstrum. If you get frozen doNOT thaw in the microwave it destroys some of the antibodies. Thaw with warm water. I hope none of this is needed and the little quy is butting and sucking this morning. Hang in there. I think some of us forget what it was like to take on a new enterprize without a lot of experience.

[Ed K]

Originally Posted by bruce2288

Ed, I posted last night but I guess it didn't go through. If the calf gets to sucking, no you do not need to confine them. What did you find this morning? If he hasn't sucked, I would get some colostrum from the vet or if there is a dairy farm around they often have frozen colstrum. If you get frozen doNOT thaw in the microwave it destroys some of the antibodies. Thaw with warm water. I hope none of this is needed and the little quy is butting and sucking this morning. Hang in there. I think some of us forget what it was like to take on a new enterprize without a lot of experience.

Well one quarter of the cows udder was shriveled down this morning. The calf and mother are near each other and confined to a fenced triangle about 30 foot on a side. I haven't seen the calf sucking successfully. It gets up by itself and goes near mom and gives those teats a lick. The remaining 3 teats look larger in diameter and very tight to the point of the skin being shiny. I tried to express some milk for the calf to get the taste of but the cow turns away from me. She doesn't turn away from the calf ior push him away.

I'm just nervously watching from about 75 feet away on the porch and checking in here periodically for advice from the experienced

Thanks

[gone-a-milkin]

It sounds like the calf is nursing now, is that right? You should be able to tell both by the cows udder and by the calf going potty.

Often times a new calf will pick one quarter and nurse only from that one for the first day or 2, this is fine. The cow will adjust her production to meet the needs of her baby.

[Ed K]

Well I had a pretty big day of listening to everyone and realizing how ill prepared I was for any kind of trouble. (I'm still operating under the assumption that I'm having trouble although wondering if letting things go might not have been the best strategy) After trying a few, I was able to get a aging former dairyman to come over. We put the cow in a halter (probably for it's first time ever.) He milked the cow and we saved the colostrum/milk for the calf. That's the double good news. It should be better for the cow and the calf we have the colostrum and the cow's udder is probably more managable for the calf. The bad news is that the cow broke the fence and is wandering now with a few ropes on her and is not falling for the usual banging of grain buckets to entice her back. After about 4-5 hours of not eating (that I'm pretty sure of because of all of the tie-up and milking rukus) the calf only drank about 1/2 a pint from the bottle. I'm hoping she's really full from that quarter this morning but the thought did occur that the older calf might have got that under the single strand of fence that was separating them last night. As stated above, I've changed that now with further separation. This has definitely not been my best day of cattle ownership and I'm wondering how after reading so many books for so long before getting cows I don't believe any of the books addressed the combination of issues I think I'm having.

Still not out of the woods

[Ed K]

Update,

The very short story is that I got the mother back in the pen at dark last night and the calf fed several times from it's mother throughout the day. The calf still sleeps a lot during the day and I saw it have two nice sized semisolid orange yellow poos today. Mom licks the calf and they seem to react pretty well to each other.

At one point in the day the calf left the mom and ducked under the single strand separating the mom and the they lay down beside each other as if they get along. For safety when I wasn't watching I have the calf tethered on the mother's side.

Thanks to you all for your input

[myersfarm]

ED K wrote....when I wasn't watching I have the calf tethered on the mother's side


if you are mean you have it tied with a rope to the cow...that is not good the cow can kill the calf if the rope gets stangled....JMO


tjm

[Ed K]

Originally Posted by myersfarm

ED K wrote....when I wasn't watching I have the calf tethered on the mother's side


if you are mean you have it tied with a rope to the cow...that is not good the cow can kill the calf if the rope gets stangled....JMO


tjm

Sorry I wasn't clear. The calf is tethered to a pen. Mother comes to the calf for feeding. No ropes connecting mother to calf.

[gone-a-milkin]

Ed K, I am glad to hear that they are getting settled in together.

[Ed K]

Originally Posted by gone-a-milkin

Ed K, I am glad to hear that they are getting settled in together.

Thanks. The calf is draining 3 quarters but the fourth has an oddly shapped (stubby cone shaped) teat that I don't think the calf can handle. Incidentally I'm pretty sure this is just the shape of the teat because I saw this same thing with it's last calf and even in-between calves.

New question: if the 10 month older calf can get along with the young calf how long should I wat to put mom, 10 month old and new calf together again.

THanks

[gone-a-milkin]

You think this older calf is also nursing the mama?

[Ed K]

Originally Posted by gone-a-milkin

You think this older calf is also nursing the mama?

No definitely not because they're currently separated because the older calf was pushing the new calf around and mounting the mom on the day of the calf's birth. Don't know if that's normal jealousy/dominance stuff. Since then the young calf has run under the single strand fence separation mom and older calf and during those moments they laid down together seemingly peacefully. THe problem is that I'd like the older calf to get nice grass to fatten and the cow to get nice grass since she's produing milk and it would be easiest to do if they were all in the same pen. My concern is that the 10 month old calf who was weaned (mom dried up) in Feb or so would start taking the mom's milk again. Does that happen with a 10 month old calf?