quick help with dexter questions, please?

[cathleenc]

Thanks to Dbarjminis, I 'might' have a chance at a dexter cow I can actually afford and who is reasonably close. Now for the tough part - is a dexter right for us?

How much does a dexter cow soil her inside barn pen? We had a holstein/jersey cow here for a month and man, but that just about did me in.... That cow could drink 20-40 gallons of water a day and the urine seemed to be equivalent in volume. I know dexters are smaller - but would a dexter cow consume/output 1/2 the amount the full size cow did? Can you give me a guestimate?

If you keep a dexter cow indoors during the cold months about how much time/day or week should we expect to spend cleaning the pen? We currently deep bed the goat over the winter and then dig out the pens in the spring. Is that reasonable to expect to be able to do with a dexter cow?

How easy is a dexter to milk compared to a cow? That full size gal was a first freshener and my hands suffered trying to milk her out just 2x. Do cows udders improve for milkability & let down with subsequent freshenings? When you grab a teat is there something to really hold on to - like with a goat - or do the teats stay small like the ff jersey/holstein?

We finally have ourselves set up with 2 really nice quality dairy goats - getting about 1.5 gallons/day with kids left on during the day. Easy to care for, not hard on the pens, delightful personality. We prefer cow milk - and dream of the butterfat/cream/butter. So we need to decide whether to sell the goats and get the bred heifer or to stay with the goats.

The dexter cow in question has a small percentage of holstein in her - the sellers report her to be very tiny, no bigger really than the full blood dexters. Dbarjminis said the cow looked very dairy. The sellers have not milked her - just left calves on her. How risky would it be to try and use her for our family milk cow, letting two proven quality dairy goats go?

And you might find this one silly but... how 'cow-y' will one dexter cow make the barn smell? I am so sensitive to smells and I could smell that full size cow on my clothes, in my hair.... I never smell the goats the same way. Is it just a cow thing?

Wikipedia says that a mature Dexter cow averages 600 lbs - which is not small. But the pictures of Dexters makes them looks very small.... so is it the fact that they are so stout that ends up with the substantial weight? I keep scratching my head on that one....

What should I ask you for insights into that I am forgetting to do right now?

thank you,
Cathy

[Karin L]

I don't know much about Dexters, but I can answer some of your questions. Sure 600 lbs doesn't seem small, but it is when you compare that weight to the bigger cows that have an average weight of about 1600 lbs. Them mini's do have that stout look to them, being less leggy and a little more like little barrels that make them take on a bit more weight. And the average weight for them isn't much different than Dexters...maybe off by a hundred pounds or so.

Cows smell like cows. Just like horses and ponies smell like horses and ponies. I've been around cattle for so long that I don't even notice the smell, I've gotten so used to it that it is one of my favorite smells when I walk into a barn.

The cow patties will probably be a little smaller since she'd be half the size of a conventional dairy cow; which'd probably mean half the time cleaning out the milk stall.

As for having her as a dairy cow, that'll probably leave to a bit of training if she isn't used to being handled or is halter trained (I assume she is). But I'll leave that to the other more experienced folks to explain that to you.

Sorry I couldn't be of much help.

[Cliff]

I think you're not getting many answers because of the overwhelming number of questions lol.
Udders are totally individual things. Some cows have tiny teats no matter if they're a ff or not. Commercial dairy cows have been purposely bred to have smaller teats because they are easier with the milking machines. Ask for a picture of her udder is all I know to say on that one. Seems all our dexters have decent length teats though. I wouldn't personally buy a cow for milk who has small teats, btdt, and as you know it's a huge pain.
You'll obviously have to train her to milk, this is individual also as to how well they tolerate it. You may have to take her calves totally off her to milk, dexters are good mommies and she may not want to let down if you're milk-sharing and calf is on her part of the time. But just speculation, as I said it's individual.
As for the messy barn - easy, just don't lock her up. I can almost guarantee she won't stay in there if not locked up. Dexters tend to have a lot more of a free-spirit mentality and I can't imagine one would be happy locked in for the winter, it's just not natural. If allowed choice she'll most likely come in to eat/be milked, then be out again, even if just to stand in the snow in the barnyard.

[Cliff]

As for smell, I can't imagine a dexter making a smell like one of the monster dairy cows. They seem to make a smell all their own. Ever been in a milking parlor? Ick.
600 lbs is small when you consider that most mature Jerseys weigh 1200 lbs, and holsteins far upward from that.

[linn]

I have a Dexter cow, so I will try to answer your questions according to my experience with her. A Dexter cow will eat about one third the amount of hay that a large cow will eat. She will also need less water, because she is smaller, therefore her manure and urine output will be less. Even so these small cows can make a mess of a small pen.
Depending on the winter temperatures where you live, you may not need to keep your cow inside. I live in the Midwest and my cow lives outside. If you live in a frigid climate, then your cow may need to be shedded during the very cold days or during ice or snow storms.
My cow is an easy milker with larger teats than a Jersey. Mature Dexter cows usually average about 2 gallons per day. If your cow is part Holstein, she may give more. Dexter milk averages about 4% butterfat content.
Have the owners get the cow in a pen where you can examine her thoroughly. If she will let your touch her and feel of her udder, make sure there are not hard quarters and that all quarters look like they are producing. How old is this cow? An old cow cannot chew her food well, so she will get thin and lose condition. Is the cow bred back. You don't want a cow that has trouble conceiving. Is the cow tame, you don't want a wild cow.
I smell like cow every time I milk, so I keep chore clothes for the barn work and I shower after chores every morning and take a sponge bath at night. Of course, I do other chores along with the cow. I don't think you can set down and milk a cow or a goat without some of the smell transferring to your arms and clothing. Any cow, no matter what size, is going to make the barn smell if the bedding is not changed two or three times a day.
Dexter cows can weigh from 500 to 650 pounds according to the cow. I do believe Dexter cows are a little larger now than they used to be.
My Dexter has more of a dairy look to her. She is not the short, stocky type. There are two types of Dexters, long legged, (which mine is) and short legged. The short legged Dexters appear more stocky because of the length of their legs. Some short legged Dexters also carry the bull dog gene.
I hope this helps instead of hinders. Good luck with your cow.

[Cliff]

"I smell like cow every time I milk"

But to me it seems like sort of a sweetish smell with the smaller cows. Not that sharp raw smell the monsters seem to have.

[linn]

Cliff, I have never owned a pure Holstein, but I have milked Jerseys, Milking Shorthorns, Jersey/Red Angus crosses, and Black Angus/Holstein cross cows. I don't recall the smell of them being any different than the smell of my Dexter. Don't get me wrong, the smell of a cow doesn't bother me, but I prefer to wash it off when I get to the house.

[cathleenc]

lots more information to share - and I really appreciate the info you are sharing with me. thank you!

- all of the heifers/cows available are pretty wild - one, a dexter/galloway young cow 22m, is curious and more interactive than the others (Dbarjminis really liked that one)

- the dexter/holstein is a 2 yr heifer, 1/2 holstein & 1/2 dex. Said to be just about exactly the same size as the other dexters but looks very dairy instead of very beef. Seller does not have information about the teat size/milkability from either the dam nor sire lines. (neighbors holstein, their bull who they no longer have)

- seller is willing to have any cow/heifer vet checked, I pay. No idea about disease status at the moment. Told me they have a slight ringworm issue going on that they are treating.

[dbarjacres]

Hey Cathy,

The 1st freshener we've been talking about isn't wild, she just needs training.

The holstein cross is 16 m.o. and does look holstein and is a sharp looking, sleek solid black heifer, I think that heifer may go bigger than the others available as she is half holstein and may get that extra height as she ages.

None of the cows have ringworm I can see, except a 9 m.o. bull in the other pasture. But they do shed all their Dexters over winter, so ringworm is kinda expected.

My girls will be living outside 24/7 with free access to housing - that's how my Nigerian Dwarf goats live too and thrive not being in a damp dark barn.

I hate bedding packs with goats and don't do it, can't imagine a cow of any size unless you have a tractor/skidsteer to remove it.

[Cliff]

"Seller does not have information about the teat size/milkability from either the dam nor sire lines."

Doesn't matter. Look at the teats on the cow you're looking to buy.

[cathleenc]

Originally Posted by Cliff

"Seller does not have information about the teat size/milkability from either the dam nor sire lines."

Doesn't matter. Look at the teats on the cow you're looking to buy.

she has never been bred yet. Wouldn't that eliminate the utility of looking at her teats?

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by cathleenc

she has never been bred yet. Wouldn't that eliminate the utility of looking at her teats?

Ha ha guess I was missing that little point.
You can tell when they start to bag up though if you have experience.

[wstevenl]

This is a tough one. My most dairy looking Dexter has little teats that I'd hate to try and milk by hand. A more beef looking Dexter that just lost her calf is now being milked 2x per day. She was giving 1.5 gallons for a few days and this morning I got 1.25 in one milking (better forage) so I expect to surpass 2 gallons today. This is an 8 year old cow that had never been milked. She's having to be trained to come in the stansion, and that is a struggle, but she milks very easily. She started out kicking but doesn't at all any more. She has longer teats in front but all are long enough to grab pretty well. Our cows spend the winter living in a small pen and eating in the barn with a deep bedding pack. We add hay/straw/wood chips as often as we can to keep it from getting wet or smelly.

[Madsaw]

Cathy,
If this falls through the vet down here has some heifers for sale. I do not know how many dexters he has and been halter breaking the young heifers.
Bob

[SusyTX]

Maybe I'm just used to it, but I swear our Dexters don't smell! I've been around dairy cattle back east, and they were pretty darn stinky...been around Charlois, Brangus, cross-breds here in TX, and haven't noticed much of a smell,, but they were outside animals.

Our Dexters (12) are outside 24/7 (but have a covered shelter - rarely used), and are grass-fed. I'm guessing diet plays a large role in cow 'fragrance' and since they free-range they aren't housed in an enclosed area with their urine and droppings. We have noticed their cow patties don't have much of an odor....again I'm guessing it's the grass diet.

Most of our Dexters have smallish teats, I guess, but proportional for their size. We have one, though, our oldest cow at 10, that has an udder like a Jersey and thankfully just had a heifer calf. We'd love to have more with udders like hers.

[copperhead46]

In all honesty, it sounds to me like you really don't need a cow. Cows don't need to be kept up in a stall all the time, that is going to make a lot of mess, no matter what the breed. You are way too concerned about the everyday trouble that having a milk cow involves. You are worrying about things that are just a given, when you have a cow, things like smell, crap (and lots of it) work, and the everyday aggrivation of a milk cow. I don't mean to be ugly about it, but I just think that if you get any kind of cow, she isn't going to make you happy.
P.J.