A question about Lilly

[bulldog]

I have a jersey Holstein cross heifer that is about 8 months old, and I have bottle raised her, and she is halter broke and goes for long walks with us down the road. Do we ever get the looks! Any way, she is the only animal other than my dog that I have at my place. So as playful as she is, and as friendly, and silly, she does put her head down to butt me ALLOT. I always kick, hit, smack her really hard on her poll with the pitch fork handle or whatever. And while she quits for the moment, I know she will be back again! She has never really hit me, but I just don’t like her lowering her head in play at me. I have had horses my whole life and I know how strong and quick animals are. So any advice? Hitting her with my fist hurts me more than it hurts her! Is this something I should be really worried about? This is my first cow and obviously I would like her to be as nice as possible. Thanks

[Cliff]

Her nose is the most sensitive part of her body. Hitting her anywhere else isn't likely to get her attention and might even be taken by her as playing. You probably already do this, but yell at her as well when you bop her. Bopping her on the nose and yelling at her should get her attention.
I would be afraid to be hitting her on the poll with a pitchfork handle "really hard."
It's hard to say how serious the behavior is without actually seeing it. I had an older Jersey who loved to rub her forehead on my leg. Made me nervous at first bc she would drop her head pretty fast, but she was gentle and just wanted to do that for some reason.
How close to you is she when she lowers her head? Is she bucking around and acting a fool when she does it? How often does she do it? Does she have horns?

[bulldog]

Hey there,

Yes, she is acting like a nut when she does it. She is definitely shaking her head, and jumping all around. She does it most every day, if she does not have grain to keep her busy while I am mucking. It is very hard to reach her nose as it is almost on the ground when she does it!! I'm not really upset about it, but it does not seem to be changing for the better and I can just imagine a 1,000 Lb. Lilly wanting to butt me. So anyway, I just had the vet dehorn her about two months ago, and she did stop for a while as it hurt so bad, but no that they are all healed up she is back at it. Thanks for your advice, I will try yelling, but that does not seem to get her attention. But maybe coupled with a bop to the nose she will get the picture

[Cliff]

I've had youngsters act that way but they've always had enough respect to stay out of my space with it. Personally if she's a few feet away I would just watch and bop her if she gets too close, as if she stays that far away even though she wants to play she is respecting you. That's what I've always done and they always grow out of the nonsense. I guess if they were older and still doing it but not goofing around then I'd take steps.
I'd hate for you to be hitting on her if she is respecting your space, she would never understand what was going on.
You said she's never actually butted you?

[genebo]

Carry an "authority stick". Get one of those fiberglas sticks with a rubber handle and a rubber tip. Not an electric prod, but one that looks just like it.

Keep it between you. If she does something bad, rap her across the nose with it. It really stings. Don't haul of and swing at her. Hit her like a teacher hitting a student with a ruler. SMACK!

Holler NO! at the top of your lungs when you do it.

Why's she doing it? Cattle are herd animals and need a herd structure. You and she are the entire herd. You can be the leader or she can be, but one of you has to be. If it's in doubt which of you is the leader, then it will be decided by head butting, pushing and shoving.

It's instinctual. So always behave like the alpha animal. Never stoop so that your head is below hers. Don't show fear. Act like you're the boss at all times. She'll love you just as much that way as she would if you let her be the boss. She just wants order.

If you don't train her, she'll get worse and you'll have to let her go.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[G. Seddon]

Originally Posted by bulldog

I always kick, hit, smack her really hard on her poll with the pitch fork handle or whatever.

Poor heifer. Discipline is important, but try the quick sting on the tip of the nose (as others have suggested) instead of the above. She's probably lonely and could use a companion of her own kind to play with. Does she have access to a pasture to run around and do you have room for a weaned steer or another young heifer? They will butt and push and shove each other a lot, but that's how they play.

[bulldog]

Poor heifer nothing! I take very good care of Lilly, she gets brushed and walked and gets to run all over creation with my dog! She gets lots of loving every day, and the only time I "hit, kick, or smack her" is when she is challenging me. Cliff, yes, she is right up against my leg when she does it. Let me clarify, she has never knocked me off me feet, but she will bump me pretty good. I don’t want any body thinking that I abuse my animals, but I can not just let her get after me like that! I have been thinking about getting another calf, just so she will have a buddy. Do you think that would really help the problem?

[DairyGoatSlave]

dont hit the poll! that just ----es them off and make them want to hit harder! punch her in the nose hard too! that sould stop that

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by bulldog

Poor heifer nothing! I take very good care of Lilly, she gets brushed and walked and gets to run all over creation with my dog! She gets lots of loving every day, and the only time I "hit, kick, or smack her" is when she is challenging me. Cliff, yes, she is right up against my leg when she does it. Let me clarify, she has never knocked me off me feet, but she will bump me pretty good. I don’t want any body thinking that I abuse my animals, but I can not just let her get after me like that! I have been thinking about getting another calf, just so she will have a buddy. Do you think that would really help the problem?

OK, I was just trying to clarify since I can't see what happens. Agree she should never bump you. I can see why you ended up hitting her in the poll if her nose is on the ground. But agree she may take the knock on the poll as you playing. That's how cows play with each other, and they push/hit pretty hard sometimes. So it could be a game for her. She shouldn't get close enough to you with the foolishness to be able to bump you. You might have to stop walking her for a while to establish a personal space area she's not allowed to enter till she matures a bit (she won't lose her halter training at this point) maybe carry a stick and push her away before she gets too close.
Although cows are a bit denser than horses, think of teaching a horse to stay out of your personal space.

[mycowLilly]

Hi! I have a jersey named Lilly also! How funny! My Lilly will be two this summer... - she has responded well to just a few bops on the nose. We got her a pet bull calf a few months ago, and she was in heaven! He passed away earlier this week suddenly... but getting her a companion was a GREAT thing. I'm looking to get something else for her.

Please read back on some of the earlier posts from "mycowlilly" over the last few weeks. I've learned all kinds of things... one of them primarily being, you want a steer, not a bull - and definately not a jersey bull. Another heifer would be a good idea possibly! Lilly has been my first cow... and I handle her much like you'r handling your Lilly... daily brushings, halter walking, etc. Evidently, doing that with a jersey calf bull, can make them very dangerous adults. I had Norman as an intent to breed with Lilly...after he matured enough.... evidently not a good idea. Please take my lessons learned though... and enjoy YOURCOWLILLY!

[Karin L]

Originally Posted by bulldog

Poor heifer nothing! I take very good care of Lilly, she gets brushed and walked and gets to run all over creation with my dog! She gets lots of loving every day, and the only time I "hit, kick, or smack her" is when she is challenging me. Cliff, yes, she is right up against my leg when she does it. Let me clarify, she has never knocked me off me feet, but she will bump me pretty good. I don’t want any body thinking that I abuse my animals, but I can not just let her get after me like that! I have been thinking about getting another calf, just so she will have a buddy. Do you think that would really help the problem?

It may, but I've had a steer do that exact thing to me, pushing up against my hip and goof around with me a little. But that was a time when I didn't know how to establish dominance with him or if I should have. And this particular steer had plenty of buddies with him, but he still did it.

But he was just weird...more like a big dog than a bovine. Although I still regret not smacking him on the snout and **standing my ground** rather than smack then walk off (figgered that that's a bit of a no-no); I also regret messing with his head when he'd push against me (natural to push him back, to push on the closest thing I could reach to get him "off" me), another no-no. And yet another thing I failed to do was give a loud, stern, "NO!!" as soon as I smacked him. Also regret not yelling at him like I should've (again, didn't know at the time). And, yet again, another thing I could've done was twist his ear to let him know that I didn't want him too close to me. I've done it with other steers after he came and went, and it sure works because when they see you go for their ears they back off. Again, I didn't know I could've done that at the time...


Now here's one of my dumb spur-of-the-moment questions: which seems to hurt the animal worst, a whack across the bridge of the nose or a whack right on the nose (like the soft part of the nose)?

I know when I smacked Amigo (my pet steer) across the bridge of the nose he kinda just stood there stunned but then shook it off and came to me again. And of course I had to repeat it on him a couple more times, but then stupid me "ran" away to get on the other side of the fence instead of staying to inforce my dominance over him, which I should've done. But, I knew that it did hurt him (I did hit him pretty hard, mind), because when I met up with him again, and attempted to do the smack thing on his nose when he was misbehaving, the smartypants turned his head away when I made the motion to correct him. Like made a wince and turned his head away like a kid would back off suddenly if his mother made a motion to correct him by an attempted swat on the behind that he had gotten before. Like I said, he was a bit unlike any other steers we had before.

I just thought it was best to not be in the same pen as him because he was getting big. He's past hamburger now.

But, going back to the topic, BullDog's Lilly might appretiate some companionship from another heifer, but you, bulldog, still have to make sure she knows who's boss nonetheless, just like MyCowLilly had to do with her Lilly when Norman was around.

[bulldog]

Thank you all so much for your advice. I will continue reprimanding her when she does it, thank you for removing my doubts! She has been doing great the last few days, has not tried it once. And to mycowlilly, how fun it is to have a silly Lilly! Do you think getting another calf would make her less interested in me? As in not be as friendly (maybe that would be a good thing) And how old should the new calf be before it is turned out with my very rambunctious fat cow? Thanks again.