Raw Milk Dairy Question

[GBov]

Just found a jersey dairy in our area and am strongly considering buying from them for my family. I have always wanted a house cow but its still a couple of years away and this seems a nice stop gap till we get our own. They sell raw milk for "pet" consumption only.

Do any of you buy your milk for your family from this kind of dairy? I want to have raw milk for my kids and myself but the law is against us for buying for our own consumption. We are going to go visit the farm this weekend - they welcome guests - and see the cows as the kids are mad keen on cows but are there any things I should be looking for or questions we should ask that would let me know if the milk is good for us as well as the dog?

It seems a silly question I know, but "the question is only easy if you know the answer." (wink)

[PamB]

Ask them if they drink their milk. Pam

[bulldog]

Hi there,
I am doing just the same as you, but I have the cow already. Its just that she is only 4 moths old! So I am buying milk "illegally" from a nice farmer down the road. I would make sure they drink their own milk. Also how clean are the facilities? Do the cows have manure stuck to the back legs/udders? Does the milker wipe the teat before milking? Do they use hormones? Just a few things to think about. I love the milk we get and can not wait till Lilly is making us some!

[haypoint]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listeria_monocytogenes

New York City is having a rapid increase in human TB due to unlicensed and illegally processed cheese, using raw milk, refered to as "bathtub cheese".

Do what you want, take what ever risks you want, it's a free world. If, however, you are making choices that involve babies and children.......

If they can take your children away because you left them in the car for a few minutes, just think what they'd do if you got caught feeding them "pet food".

[Ken Scharabok]

Raw milk sales is regulated on a state-by-state basis. In some it is 100% illegal. Others are more lenient, such as allowing 'share milking', to where you essentially buy into a herd and then pay so much per gallon as a type of processing charge to the producer.

Questions you might ask besides do you drink your own milk:

- May I watch you do a regular milking?

- Who inspects your milk, such as taking samples for lab testing?

- How often are your cows tested for bovine TB?

[GBov]

Originally Posted by haypoint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listeria_monocytogenes


If they can take your children away because you left them in the car for a few minutes, just think what they'd do if you got caught feeding them "pet food".

ROFLOL

We did just that as kids, mum kept a big bag of Purina dog chow by the door for our pack of mongrel curs and we ate it all the time. Mum reckoned it hadnt hurt any of the dogs so it shouldnt do us any harm. Funnily enough, it didnt

I am well looking forward to our visit to the farm and will keep an open mind and an open eye in looking around. The milk is $7 a gallon so its expensive but I am trying to buy as much local as I can, and as much unprocessed as possible. Have found organic eggs from just down the road, wild pork from a nice man a few towns over and am still looking for the rest of what we normally buy, one item at a time. I found beef but its out of our budget right now but am saving for a side and our nice egg lady is looking into doing a co-op with roasters, we all pay in and she raises them and come slaughter day, we all pitch in for the hard work.

I have just brought my family home from Ireland - I grew up here but my kids and husband are all Irish - and having been away for 14 years I am appalled at the low quality of food that is now around. What on EARTH has happened to the food???? Corn syrup is in EVERYTHING, the beef on the shelf must have died of heart attack its so fat and greasy and the pork and chicken, indescribably bland and flabby tasteless veg and hard and woody fruit..............the list just goes on and on.

Oooops, sorry for the rant but gosh darn it, I remember GOOD food and its like a treasure hunt now, trying to find good food to feed a family. I know there is gold amongst the stodge but finding its the thing lol

Thanks for your suggestions for questions to ask and things to look for, the manure thing for sure as we lived next to a dairy herd in Ireland and bletch, the state of the cows and the stink urgh, just thinking about it could put you off milk for life

[BlackWillowFarm]

I applaud how you are taking charge of your families well being. I agree with the others about inspecting the dairy you buy your milk from. Ask about TB and Brucellosis in the herd, testing of cows and if they test their milk.

I was buying raw milk but decided I would rather have my own cow. I feel incredibly blessed that I can do that.

You are right about the quality of food in this country. It's appalling. Everything is corn! That's a slight exaggeration, but not much. The factory farms use corn to fatten beef, but the health experts can't figure out why Americans are overweight. Duh. "That is my personal opinion to those of you who may disagree" (okay, off my soapbox)

As far as pathogens in raw milk, they exist, but they also exist in pasteurized milk as well.

The following was pulled from the article quoted by HayPoint...note that the problem isn't only associated with raw milk.

"L. monocytogenes has been associated with such foods as raw milk, pasteurized fluid milk,[22] cheeses (particularly soft-ripened varieties), ice cream, raw vegetables, fermented raw-meat sausages, raw and cooked poultry, raw meats (of all types), and raw and smoked fish. Its ability to grow at temperatures as low as 0°C permits multiplication in refrigerated foods. In refrigeration temperature such as 4°C the amount of ferric iron promotes the growth of L. monocytogenes.[23]"

People like to bash raw milk, but in reality, these food borne illnesses are not exclusive to raw milk. They're in all kinds of foods, everywhere. It's more a matter of how the food product is handled before it arrives on your table.

[Otter]

Also make sure they test for Johnnes disease. the jury is still out on whether it's been linked to Crohnes (sp?) in humans. Ask to draw the milk from the bulk tank, then it should be fine. Some dairies the pet milk really is pet milk, it's what can't go in the tank like colostrum, mastitis milk or from a cow on antibiotics. Fine for pigs (except the antibiotic stuff) but I wouldn't drink it.

[BlackWillowFarm]

Originally Posted by haypoint

New York City is having a rapid increase in human TB due to unlicensed and illegally processed cheese, using raw milk, refered to as "bathtub cheese".

I respectfully disagree Haypoint. Please provide your source.

When I searched for information about an increase in tuberculosis in New York City this is what I found. It states that TB is at an historic low since March 2008.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/pr2008/pr020-08.shtml

As always, we are ultimately responsible for what we place on our table for ourselves and our families. An informed consumer is a wise consumer.

[ginnie5]

its legal to buy raw milk here and I pay $6 a gallon. At that price it should be ok for people!

[haypoint]

Sorry, Blackwillowfarm, I couldn't find the article that I read awhile ago about bathtub cheese, un-pasteurized milk and TB outbreaks. It discussed the "trendy" interest in this cheese and the great demand in New York.

You are correct, we are responsible for what we place on our table and what we feed our families. Since we cannot identify salmonella, ecoli or TB visually, we can either submit samples of everything we eat (then wait for the results), self-treat every product to high temperatures to kill pathogens or purchase products that have been tested by an independent agency. We have freedom of choice.

I looked at some other sources:
http://chfs.ky.gov/news/raw+milk.htm

http://www.cha.state.md.us/edcp/tb/p...tfactsheet.pdf
Tuberculosis Cases Prompt Warning on Raw-Milk Cheese

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...rssnyt&emc=rss

http://health.blogs.foxnews.com/2008...-kids-with-tb/

http://media.www.ecollegetimes.com/m...-3379429.shtml

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_2060722.php

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/...alifornia.html

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/tb/tb-mbovis.shtml

http://www.topix.com/travel/us/2008/...ne-and-discuss
“But the germ can infect anyone who eats contaminated fresh cheeses sold by street vendors, smuggled across the Mexican border or produced by families who try to make a living selling so-called “bathtub cheese” made in home tubs and backyard troughs.”
Does anyone remember this?
“Capitol Hill lawmakers yesterday called for an investigation into why federal officials knowingly allowed a Mexican national infected with a highly contagious form of tuberculosis to repeatedly board planes and cross U.S. borders”
How about this
"Tainted Cheese fuels TB rise in California"
"Unpasteurized dairy products linked to reemergence of ancient disease"

http://ihealthbulletin.com/blog/2008...sis-to-people/

http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/epidemio...cember2005.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5424a4.htm

[sarhound]

I buy raw Jersey milk from a dairy near me. I'll never buy chalk water from the store again. It's amazing the difference- thick, creamy, full-bodied, and makes pudding and macaroni and cheese that's to die for, along with potato soup... It goes for $5 a gallon here.

I drink a glass every morning. We also eat yogurt produced by the same dairy. As soon as my fence lines are fixed, I'm bringing a couple of Jersey girls home.

One day, I'll get to make cheese. I can't wait.

[tyusclan]

We've been buying raw milk for quite a while from some friends who own a Jersey dairy. They sell it "not for human consumption", but once I get it in my refrigerator it's my business what I do with it.

We did have our own cows, but we don't have enough land to grow much of our own livestock feed. With the cost of feed and the work of milking it was just easier to buy it from the dairy. They're only a few miles down the road.

[timberweed]

Check out www.rawmilk.com. Lots of interesting info., which, as a raw milk drinker, I happen to agree with.

[FB.Ironworker]

never had fresh cow's milk , but would it be like back in the good old days of squeezing the tit and grabbing a mouthful.

[DJ in WA]

Well, here we go again. Someone in Florida, USA, asks about raw milk, and Haypoint decides to shotgun an assortment of irrelevant information to incite fear. Every link you gave talks about TB in cheese from MEXICO! Florida is not in MEXICO!
Bovine TB has essentially been eradicated in the U.S. You might as well worry about getting polio. Contact a local large animal vet and ask the prevalence of TB in your area. Also ask how many people have gotten sick or died from raw milk in your county. I know a large animal vet who drank raw milk from dairies for 40 years, including raising his 5 kids on it.
From one of Haypoint’s links.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/tb/tb-mbovis.shtml

Anyone can become infected with M. bovis, but it generally occurs among people who eat or drink unpasteurized (raw) milk products produced in regions or countries where M. bovis disease is common in cattle, such as Mexico.
Humans are generally infected by eating or drinking contaminated, unpasteurized (raw) milk products from areas where M. bovis is present in cattle.

I would say, if you’re stupid, don’t drink raw milk. If you can’t think for yourself and determine a safe food source, let the government do it for you. The government is always unbiased, never taking money from lobbyists that would in any way influence what it deems a health threat (except for tobacco, booze, driving cars, etc, etc, etc) - yeah, right.

Again, the concept of relative risk. Some people look at rare plane crashes and urge people to drive. Essentially causing more deaths because driving is more risky. If you're truly concerned about safety, you definitely want to stay off the highways.

Less effort ought to go against raw milk and more against the big health threats we face. Is it healthier to live on pop and booze than on raw milk? We now have epidemics of obesity partly to blame on high-sugar and calorie, low nutrition drinks. Obesity contributes to diabetes, cancer and heart disease, which are the big killers in our country. The next generation faces a shorter lifespan due to these factors. Government programs subsidize the production of unhealthy foods, while they fight raw milk. Amazing.

[Ken Scharabok]

Lock.