Calf raising article???

[topside1]

Here is an article dug up by another member and has been attached to the calf raising sticky....Great article, one question though, after reading the info I guess bucket feeding is not really a good idea!! Any thoughts?


http://www.rd1.com/web/content?in_se...9&in_page=5814

[Cotton Picker]

Hi Topside1,

I would be the culprit that posted the article. what sort of thoughts are you fishing for?

David

[gone-a-milkin]

That article reads like an ad for Milk Bar to me.

[topside1]

Based on the article I would gather bucket feeding is not the best of ideas. I use various feeding techniques and bucket feeding is one of them. After reading the piece a person would believe that bucket feeding is a bad idea....Drinking to fast milk ends up in the wrong stomach compartment??? Just trying to create a educational discussion...Good point Gone a milkin...Topside

[Madsaw]

We went from bucket feeding calves yrs ago. If the calf is not sucking a brood cow, then its on a milk bar. They just seem to do so much better sucking then they do out of a bucket. Also some times they inhale the milk when useing a bucket too.
Bob

[LizD]

We were told years ago, by an old dairy farmer, that a calf shouldn't be taken from the bottle and put on the pail, for at leasts three weeks. This article might be explaining what he 'knew'. I didn't pay too much attention since we bottle feed anyway. I feed whole milk and want to know how much my veal calves are drinking vs weight gain and also only feed the others an exact amount so that I can have the balance for cheese. Liz

[Cotton Picker]

Thanks Topside1 for giving me a little direction.

What I got out of the article was reinforcement of the idea that a calf needs to feed low enough to provide the proper angle of milk flow and slowly enough to produce adequate saliva to aid in the digestion of the milk. It makes sense. A cow's bag is not much, if any more, than two feet off of the ground. If you have ever hand milked a cow you will find that you are only able to pull an ounce or two with each pull of the teat. Most folks hold the bottle closer to three feet off of the ground. With most calf bottles the flow is quite a bit faster than natural suckling and there are more than a few who split the nipple orifice to facilitate faster flow.

I didn't take it so much as an advertisement for a Milk Bar as I saw it as promoting a slower natural style of feeding. You don't have to buy a Milk Bar in order to accomplish that.

I've worked on dairies. I've raised calves. I've also too often seen both the milking of the cows, as well as, the care and feeding of the calves approached as more of a nuisance and after-thought rather than a primary concern. Both procedures should be given the care and attention that they deserve.

The reason that I drew attention to the article was to raise awareness regarding taking a more natural approach to hand raising calves. Just because it weighs nearly one hundred pounds and is covered with hair doesn't make it any less a newborn. A little more time spent feeding and caring for them properly will pay off in a calf that will reach it's full genetic potential in a much more expedient and natural fashion. It won't be subject to chronic digestive inefficiency due to a poor digestive start.

I've seen far too many who attempt to solve poor husbandry practices with hypodermic needles. It has always been my contention that better care of fewer animals is far more profitable and rewarding, than the lick and a promise, stick a needle in 'em, animal care and add more cattle, management style.

I was reading a posting by someone who sounded proud to have no more than a 40% death loss in their calves. Anyone has the right to follow whatever method of calf raising that they choose. I just believe in working smarter, not harder, so I try to keep my mind and eyes open for potentially better methods. Especially when a life is on the line.

As for bucket breaking... I feel that while it may be more convient for the caretaker, it's not the best method if attempted, as has been mentioned, before the calf is at least three weeks old.

David

[Cotton Picker]

Sorry, I double posted.

[Anderson farms]

The group of bottle calves we got before this last group we put on buckets. It was easier, but they did seem to get sick a lot more often and didn't gain as well as the group we have now. We did bottle feeding with this group, mostly because they didn't want to drink out of the bucket. They kept tipping bucket and it was a pain, so we stuck with the bottle feeding. They have been the healthiest calves we have ever raised. they weaned earlier and gained weight a lot better than our last group. I don't know if it had anything to do with the bottle feeding over the bucket or if they were just a healthier batch of calves. We are going to stick with bottle feeding though in the future.

[Ronney]

Thank you for finding that Topside - I tore my office apart last night looking for that article which had come out in their monthly magazine and I had kept it specifically to post on here at some stage when the subject of bucket rearing came up again.

RD1 is our version of your Tractor Supplies and while their magazine promotes the stock they carry, the articles are informative and factual. I thought this particular article was very good because although NZ'ers rarely rear by bucket anymore, it explains WHY it's not a good idea.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[topside1]

I really enjoyed the article and viewed it as a valuable refresher. Honestly I have been breaking a few of the rules, making nipple holes larger, enlarging the nipples air vent, bucket feeding as soon as possible and many more all in an effort to save a little time. Really love my milk bar, but only use it when I have a batch of 3 or more calves to feed....Anyway my next group of calves will be kept on the bar or the bottle, buckets are for water I guess...take care ya'll.....Topside

[ozark_jewels]

My experience based on the many calves I have raised and the many dairy farms I have fed calves for, is this. Bucket calves do ok, calves on a gravity-feed bottle or milk-bar system do better, and calves on a lambar-type(calves suck the milk up through a straw and through the nipple) do the best. I think that it has a lot to do with the fact that on the straw-type system, the calf is drinking at exactly the pace which he can suck it through the straw. He is never forced to drink faster than he wants and he never gets milk down his lungs due to the milk draining too fast.
I see the same thing with goat kids.
That said, we raise our calves on bottles, not the straw-system. I hope to next year if I can get set-up.

[Ken Scharabok]

Send $2 and a business-size SASE to McCarville Dairy Supplies, 820 Center Street, Mineral Point, WI 53565 and ask for a copy of their brochure on raising calves on buckets and a price list. The core of the system is a very hard nipple out of New Zealand called Suck Hard. Forces the calf to have to really suck hard to get the milk, creating the saliva necessary for proper digestion at the same time.

While they sell preassembled buckets and such, you can easily put one or more nipples at the bottom of 5-gallon plastic buckets.

[lasergrl]

can some be so kind as to add to this thread, some links to good priced calf bars?

[Cotton Picker]

Here's another interesting link for a DIY calf feeder. It has the McCarville contact info, as well as, another place in Missouri.

http://www.ibiblio.org/farming-conne...y/nzbarrel.htm

Oh, and here's another article by some guy named Ken Scharabok..... (That name sounds familiar for some reason)

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Bucket......-a083553792

[topside1]

I've read on several sites that milk bars are not washed daily....Who else does not wash their milkbar....Myersfarm I think you mentioned the no washing feature of your milk bars, way back when. I use a milk bar but wash it twice a day, what a pain. What is the reason to wash? or to not wash? Please advise who is not washing and why? Thanks,,,,Topside

[ozark_jewels]

I don't wash my bottles more often than once a week and then with bleach. They get rinsed out once a day. The dairies that I have fed calves for only wash their milk bar/lambar systems out when they wean each batch of calves(at three months). The calves are very healthy. Call me weird, but I think the extra bacteria makes for stronger calves. I also commonly feed my calves soured and clabbered milk.
With the lambar buckets for my goat kids, I don't wash the bucket more than once every two weeks in cold weather and once a day in hot weather. Again, I think a little bacteria makes for stronger kids.

[francismilker]

I'm personally rather fond of bucket feeding versus bottle feeding.
However, I posted a question on the forum last year about milk bars and was highly discourage by some that it was a bad idea do to cleaning issues. Never the less, I went ahead with my PVC pipe idea and am able to feed 12 calves at a time with it after dumping the milk from my portable milker into a reciever tank that gravity feeds the nipples. As far as cleaning goes, I'm with Ozark Jewels. I don't oversanitize. I just rinse with warm water after the calves are through. About once a week I add some clorow to the warm water and rinse with cold water then blow it out with air to make sure it drys well before next feeding.

Back to the thread idea though. I do still prefer bucket feeding over bottle. It's just that feeding gangs of calves out of buckets make for more clean up for me and I have to keep the bigger calves from robbing milk from the smaller once they're finished eating. When using the homemade milkbar I feel that every one gets their fair share, since the milk that drains out of the reciever fills up a canister above each individual nipple. It keeps one calf from sucking two gallons while others are left without. If I do have a calf that finishes up early and wants to go push someone else out of the way, I turn him out of the eating stall while the others are finishing up.
Overall though, when I've just got a few calves at a time, I prefer the conventional method of letting them directly nurse a cow. I don't have to worry about mastitis on the cow and they get fed very well with no cleanup!

[topside1]

Holy Cow/Calf, my milkbar washing days are over, weekly washing now that I can enjoy.....Topside

[francismilker]

Hey topside1! Your not trying to poke at us about being lazy cleaners are ya?!!!!!