Where do I start??

[brucetp]

Well we bought the farm, now what! Seriously, I was raised on a beef cattle farm for the first 15 or so years of my life. Then, for the next 24 years, because of some circumstances that would bore most of you I've lived all over the place. Now, this past fall we bought 46 acres in North Carolina of what used to be a tobacco farm. I want to develop this back into good green pasture for raising cattle on rotational grazing. Anyone have ideas on what I should do first? I know I need to fist have the soil tested and see were I stand. Any suggestions on that or any thing else would be great. Here's some pictures of how things look now.

http://photobucket.com/brucetp/First%20Pictures

[randiliana]

Congratulations, and welcome to the world of farming

Well, I'm not going to try to tell you how and what to seed, my area is so different than yours that what I would say may not be any help at all.

But, I can help on what you should have for facilities, BEFORE you bring in any livestock. At the bare minimum, you should have a catch pen (preferably 2) with a chute in it. A headgate at the end of the chute would be wonderful, but you can get by without one for a while if necessary. Place the pen in an area where it will be easier to get whatever animals you have into it. One suggestion is that if you plan to rotational graze have it so all your paddocks come to the catch pen, and that would be the place to provide water (if you don't have a bunch of waterholes on the place)

You don't need a barn, although that is something that is nice to have, especially if you plan to have a milk cow, when the outside weather leaves a little to be desired.

[topside1]

Welcome to the forum. Soil sample kits can be picked up at you local feed store or extention office. Directions come with the kit and samples are generally mail to a state university for testing....Topside

[brucetp]

Ah good idea randiliana.. yes i do plan on rotational grazing so I'll need to give that some thought. Thanks for pointing that out!

Topside1.. thanks for the info about the soil test. I figured the extension office would have them but I didn't think about a feed store. I'll get it from there. Thanks!

[ksfarmer]

Brucetp, you might want to contact Agmantoo on these forums. I think he is somewhere in your part of the country and seems to have a good common sense approach to raising cattle.

[jtsummie]

search "any ideas for converting to rotational grazing" in this forum agmantoo had a good talk with another member of our forum.... 3 pages worth of good info!

[travlnusa]

Originally Posted by randiliana

Congratulations, and welcome to the world of farming

Well, I'm not going to try to tell you how and what to seed, my area is so different than yours that what I would say may not be any help at all.

But, I can help on what you should have for facilities, BEFORE you bring in any livestock. At the bare minimum, you should have a catch pen (preferably 2) with a chute in it. A headgate at the end of the chute would be wonderful, but you can get by without one for a while if necessary. Place the pen in an area where it will be easier to get whatever animals you have into it. One suggestion is that if you plan to rotational graze have it so all your paddocks come to the catch pen, and that would be the place to provide water (if you don't have a bunch of waterholes on the place)

You don't need a barn, although that is something that is nice to have, especially if you plan to have a milk cow, when the outside weather leaves a little to be desired.

My advice would be to read this posting over and over again

[brucetp]

Originally Posted by topside1

Soil sample kits can be picked up at you local feed store or extention office.....

Well I'm still trying to get the soil test kits.. the feed stores are out so I'm going to go to the extension office on Monday. Anyway, what would you guys suggest with my current fields? They were planted with tobacco last year. In LATE fall the previous farmer sowed wheat as a cover crop. All he did was run a disk over it and then spread the wheat.. So now I have old tobacco stalks sticking up out of the ground as well as new tobacco plants coming up here and there among the sparce blades of wheat. (You can see some of this in the pictures in the link on the first post). Should I just leave it and spread fescue over whats already there or should I plan on plowing the fields and starting from scratch? Also do I need to wait until spring to spread or can it be done anytime?

[agmantoo]

Had you planted the fescue in the Fall you would have been a year ahead at this point. We discussed this back then didn't we? At this time since you are not positioned to bring cattle onto the farm maybe you should contact the farmer and work out some method of marketing the wheat or planting another crop (soybeans) this Spring. Spring planted fescue is much more difficult to get established than Fall planted grass, particularly if we have a dry Summer. The tobacco stalks are not a problem, you can cut them off with a bush hog. Do not work up the ground again, doing so will set you back further. From here on, use a sod drill for all the planting and try to build a carbon layer. After the wheat is harvested, if beans are not planted, you can mechanically mow the fields and not let the trash weeds flourish. Meanwhile you can do your layout, plan your handling and watering system and start the fencing and searching for a source for you livestock. Come Sept you will be in position to plant the fescue and later your legumes. I would not put a cattle on the newly planted fescue until April '10. Even then, you need to have only about 1/2 the stock you will normally be carrying. I would not expect to go through the Winter of '10 without any hay either. The root system of the fescue will not be sufficient for carrying the grass to its capacity until the end of the 2nd year following planting.

[Gregg Alexander]

Like topside stated get the soil test first. Then sit down at the table with a map of your farm and plan out pasture fence on border, look at lay of the land and draw up your cross fences, I suggest border fence barb wire and cross fences electric, what about water? If you have some type of barn draw up a set of pens around it, remember using cattle flow to and from pens to pasture to water in mind.
Divide up your pastures into sub pastures and develop your rotation from that. Start with a plan out of where you want to be in 5yrs, takes time to develop and getting over the bumps that will happen. On 46 ac of fairly good grass on a average yr with strip grazing you will have more grass than $ to buy cattle to graze the grass down.
If you plant fescue plant a clover with it you will get better results and gains on the cattle. Fescue hay will only give you about a 9-12% protein hay , that is on the very low end. Your cattle will need at least 17-24 % protein hay each winter this will cut down on protein feed in a bag for the winter.
I have a Animal SC and over 50 yrs of ojt running cattle. One thing you must remember is take a little from here and there and mix them all together and come up with a plan that works for you at the least cost

[randiliana]

please explain to me why his cattle would need 17% -25% hay for the winter? We feed cattle for about 6 months out of the year, and our feed NEVER approaches that high of a percentage. That kind of protien is pretty much dairy quality feed and a waste of money for beef cattle>

[agmantoo]

Stockpiled fescue will jump to ~ 17 % protein when Winter temps hit it and the carbs are converted to sugar. Here is my herd grazing high protein stockpiled fescue near the end of December. The herd is being rotated daily from left to right in the pic.

[topside1]

Agman, if you have a whitetail problem...Give me a buzz I'm sure I could help..Topside

[agmantoo]

topside1
The cattle are a side line, the deer are the concentration! If I get behind with the deer management expect a call. Hunting was goooood this past season. Since this is a topic related to cattle here is a pic of more fescue that is saved to stockpile.

[Gregg Alexander]

Here on my farm we have built the fertility of the soil over the last 15yrs that in good yrs of ampule rain and limited commercial fertilizer we produce hay in the 17-24% protein and feed no bag feed , no winter pasture rye,ryegrass,oats, ect. When I was ranch manager for a large commercial cow/calf ranch in texas , useing coastal Bermuda , arrowleaf clover our hay would average 20% and as hi as 27% protein .
here I use bahia, old fescue ,dallas grass, crabgrass along with inter seeded white dutch, arrowleaf, and red clover. I offer free choice salt, and mineral yr round and very rarely do I have to be forced to bag feed. I don't even figure my fescue as a grass it is a invader to my pasture system. These are just my opinions and the way I run my farm . I figure if I use my land to its best growing ability then the cattle have the best grazing that I can give and its up to me to select gentic's that show growth of meat anf bone at a early age and give me the lest cost production

[agmantoo]

I feed no hay! I let the cattle do the harvest year round. Only salt and mineral supplement are purchased. No commercial fertilizer is bought, some lime is. The headcount fluctuates around one broodcow/offspring per 1.4 to 1.6 acres. The feeder calves sell in the top 10% sold at the market. On the average day I spend less than 30 minutes working with the cattle. My annual cost to keep a broodcow and her calf is less than $100 excluding land. How would you compare your operation Gregg?

[Gregg Alexander]

My operation is different than yours , I run a heifer replacement program now. I grow heifers for local dairy from weaning to breeding.
I think your operation is successful with those kinds of #, can't say any thing else. You know as well as I one can nit pick an operation and allways find faults on what someone is doing. I don't say what I am doing is right for every one , I was just answering the question on what I would do if I was starting over again compared to what I have all ready experienced

[brucetp]

Agmantoo... yes we did discuss the wheat vs fescue back then. But it was November before they finally got all the tobacco up. We were in the middle of finishing an 800 sq ft addition which had to be completed by the end of the month and my wife was 7 months pregnant. The farmer was having trouble locating fescue at reasonable prices so late in the year and I just didn't have the time to research it my self. We had our hands full already. So that's how I am where I am.. Anyway, there is zero fencing on the property so that plus making water ways and planning layout will likely take me most of the summer. The timelines you gave actually work pretty well for me. Thanks!

Greg.. you mentioned barb for the perimeter fence.. Is that what you use because you don't have to electrify it? I mean for cost reasons? I was planning on using high tinsel. Is there some reason I shouldn't use this? Thanks!