I missed a great deal! (I think?)

[francismilker]

Last week, a fellow from my area called me, knowing I raise bottle/nurse calves wanting to know if I was interested in going to Texas with him to pick up a load of bottle calves. He didn't have many specifics. So, with our current weather and my busy life at the moment I declined.

As it turns out, I visited with him yesterday to see how his purchase went and he gave me enough info to make me second guess my decision. He had a friend, of a friend, of a friend (one of those deals) who contracts to a couple of large dairys to take all of the bull calves who had an urgent need to get rid of some calves in a hurry due to family circumstances. He ended up coming back to Oklahoma on Saturday with 74 calves total.

When he told me about that number I thought to myself, "man, has he got his work cut out for him washing bottles and keeping scours away.". So, I started quizzing him about weights, ages, and health of the calves. It kind of made me sick when I realized all 74 of these calves are right at the brink of being weined and are all currently being fed on buckets (no bottles involved) and eating grain well. Further more, when I asked if I could be nosy and see what his giving price was he said, "Was $10 a piece too much to give?".
I'm really proud for him. I just wish my first instinct wouldn't have been to decline. It's just that this time of year isn't normally the best time to be dealing with sick calves. I've always been taught that when a deal seems to good to be true, it's probably to good to be true! What do you folks think?

[gone-a-milkin]

Don't beat yourself up over it francismilker. Your first instinct was pretty right on, IMO. You did not know that these were actually older calves at the time either. Just be happy for your friend and maybe next time you will feel like riding along with him.

Also, just because you go LOOK at animals, doesn't mean you have to BUY said animals. Although it takes a strong heart to say "No", sometimes. LOL.

Good deals really do still exist, if you can spot them.

[myersfarm]

Before you beat your self up WAIT TILL HE SELLS and see how much profit he makes

I could not have made money on bulls even when they were FREE


look at the prices on bull calfs at 200 and 400 lbs it takes forever to get them that big


tjm

[okie-steading]

funny thing seeing this. i went yesterday and bought 5 bull calves and my dad also bought 5. sounds like the same circumstances--dairy. we gave $20 a piece. i have heard that in recent months that they have actually killed off some of the bull calves since they could not sell them. we are bottle feeding them and learning as we go. sure is a LOT of work.

[myersfarm]

update check out these prices on holstien steers

Feeder Holsteins: Large 3 lot 668 lbs 55.00; 888 lbs 54.00; part-load 942
lbs 57.50.


at these prices the 668 pounder bought $367.40 and thats a year old steer or older one gaining 2 pounds a day thats would be getting guessing .... 22 pounds of feed a day wonder what that would cost


the 942 ponder bought $541.65 and thats a year on feed gaining 3 pounds a day


tjm

[sammyd]

Not too much money in holsteins at the moment.
Holstein Feeder Steers 250# - 650# 40-68
Holstein Feeder Steers 650# - 950# 40-60
High Choice & Prime Grade Holstein Steers 70-73
Choice Grade Holstein Steers 63-70
Select Grade Holstein Steers 55-60


With milk dropping to 10/cwt heifers will be down as well, can't afford to buy more animals and make more milk if it costs you 14 to make it and only get 10 in return.
This summer holstein heifer calves were around 700 today top at 380.

It may be a good time to get a few if you have hay and pasture available and gamble on the price going up later this year.

[francismilker]

IF and only IF a person had access to some pretty good grazing, couldn't a person put these holstein steers on grass and mineral alone and then sell them once the grass panned out to turn a profit? Even if the holstein steer market was considerably down as it is at the present I would think that giving $10 each and adding let's say $50 (guestimated figure)worth of vaccinations and maintenance to them, you could effectively sell 250-300# calves this fall. While the prices may be .50 cents per pound, that's still a profit. Am I missing something here?

[myersfarm]

with your thinking everything else is free ...not for fenceing...not for up keep on the fam...by your figures $60 dollars in a steer that will eat twice as much as a beef calf and gain half as much....look at my way of thinking a beef steer cost $125 and with $50 of medications thats a $175 that will sell for $1.08 a pound at 500 lbs here the link to price

http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/jc_ls763.txt

thats a $540 steer the one that eats less and gains more


subtract the difference and you will see the $10 steer cost 60 to raise and sells for 50 cents a pound brings $250 at 500 lbs

250-60=$190 profit


the $125 calf that you have $175 in at 500 lbs brings $1.08 lb brings $540 at 500 lbs


540-175= $365

which one do you want to make money on remember the holstien will not gain like a beef steer will so it will take it longer to get the same size

so you could raise half as many beef calfs and make the same amount of money and have better grass for the calfs to eat



tjm

[francismilker]

TJM,
I won't argue your point that beef steers would be a lot more profit. I would say however, that for the input of $740 initial dollars(74 steers at $10 each) I would have been proud to give it a go. Even if I'd bought half the steers from beef breed for your suggested price of $125 I would have had an initial expense of $4625(37 at $125 each). While my margins would've been much larger, I don't have that kind of money to play with. Remember, I'm just a small timer that sees the crumbs from the rich man's loaf. I have raised a few dairy calves and realize that they are poor converters and slow weight gainers. I would though be very happy to sell 74 dairy calves at a $190 profit. I realize all of this is hypothetical thinking since I'm not looking out the window at a bunch of black and white steers. Another farce is that I DON'T have grass. In fact, my cows are in the pasture as we speak calling "dibs" on the next blade of grass that springs up as they are currently standing on cow piles and dirt while complaining about poop between their toes!
This particular case was just one that made me take a second thought about a decision made. I don't make hasty decisions without prayer and I'd probably make the same decision again. I was just re-analyzing my actions to learn from. My pappy has told me many times, "good decisions come from bad experiences while bad decisions make for some bad experiences to come."

[francismilker]

Sammyd,
I'd like to see some of those heifers prices coming down a bit but not at the dairyman's expense. It's seems outrageous sometimes in the market when milk is up to see day old heifers bringing $700. OUCH. The high expense paid on the heifer would have a hard time panning out since the fluid price doesn't usually stay up long enough for her to get in the milk string and start paying it back.

[myersfarm]

I understand but your still thinking a little off


not wanting to start a arugument but think of this also


how many acres would you have to have to make that $190 a calf on 74 calfs

if you only make $190 a calf and keep them for 12 months to get them to 500

[ start at 75 pounds and gain 1 pound a day for 365 pounds would be 440 pounds so it would take more then a year for them to get to 500 on just grass ]


grass does not grow that long so you will have to feed hay.....if you sell earlier the weight will be smaller and the profit will be down


say keep them 7 months gaining 1 pound a day just on grass no hay or feed

7 times 30 days is 210 plus birth weight 60 thats a 270 pounder at 50 cents a pound thats $135.00 and you have $60 in them thats $75 profit on each calf if you raised 75 thats $5625 but you will still need bunches of free grass

YOU could make that much on 8 dairy heifers thats 8 times 200 =1600 and sell at 400 pounds for $1000 8000 -1600= 6400 - milk= profit


One other thing he just bought them and not sure but I bet he will have to feed hay for the next 3 months that will eat in to that $75 profit real quick unless he has 300 acres to turn them out on that has not been grazed on since July


as I said I never could make money on bulls some people might be able to but I never could and I stated the reasons IT did not work for me


hope he comes out ahead on them


would like to know if he does and how much profit he makes


tjm

[copperhead46]

You can't tell me that I couldn't make a profit on a ten dollar calf.......... and if that calf was ready to go on grass, he'll make money this fall. He's not gonna make a bunch, but if you've got the grass, you'll get the gain, and thats going to be something. I'm with you Francismilker, it could have been a good deal, but, I'll bet it's not the first one you looked at in "hindsight" and thougt maybe I shoulda done that. Haa ha I know I have, and probably will again.
P.J.

[Allen W]

About 14 months from now with proper care he will have a potload + of 800 - 900 pound holsteins same as a beef calf. He got a good deal.

[myersfarm]

http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/ag_ls140.txt

this is a sale in Uath


Holsteins Steers: Large Frame 3 Baby Bull Calves: scarce; 200-300 lbs 42.00-52.00;
300-500 lbs 40.00-52.00; 500-700 lbs 39.00-52.50; 700-900 lbs 45.50-57.00; 900-
1000 lbs 47.00-51.50.


thats all holsteins steers are worth 1000 pounds bring $470 to $515

I know cost to gains in beef steers is 57 to 73 cents to gain a pound how do they make money on them and beef steers gain in the area of 2 to 3 pounds a day

that 1000 holstien steer is at least 400 days old on full feed the last part of his life


I work at a feed lot that has all these figures on cost to gain
I can email them to any body that wants to see them if you have EXCEL program

tjm

[sammyd]

If you had good pasture you might turn a buck or two.
Couple of years ago life was much better. 1100 pounder sent off and made better than 800. Last year we sold the spare as halves and made out OK.
But that's cattle, sometimes it's 7's sometimes it's snake eyes.
Buddy shipped a couple of 1600 pounders a couple of weeks ago and I thought he was gonna cry when he got the check.

The high expense paid on the heifer would have a hard time panning out since the fluid price doesn't usually stay up long enough for her to get in the milk string and start paying it back.

Some guys get real giddy when the price goes over 17. I have a hard time getting my pencil to work with anything over 10. Milk price is about the only thing in life I get pessimistic about. A big reason I am not in the game anymore.

[dosthouhavemilk]

nevermind