Striving for Low Costs and Sustainability

[Karin L]

That's what my goals are. (Still got a few years to go before these plans are implemented, so right now I'm sounding like the type of person that's all talk and no action. )

How to put them into place will, ironically, cost me a fair bit to get into place. Someone was quoted to have said, in one of the threads on one of the other cattle forums I frequent (Cattle Today Forums), that raising cattle was a rich man's reality and a poor man's dream...well, guess that means I'm a poor "man".

So basically what I want to do or hope to do is, first and foremost, change the handling facilities design to better manage cattle with much less stress and danger to the handler.

Second, I want to fence off the swamp area that is in the main corrals, fence it off completely so that swamp grasses can establish themselves like out in the older pasture. The part that is closest to the barn would be one of the main corrals, and the other part on the other side of the swamp (since this swamp divides the back corral into 2) convert that to pasture. Manure piles'll be gone by the time I get to wanting to seed that part. Other parts that are also swamps should be fenced off too. I learned recently that those swamp areas or low spots that really like to collect water in spring runoff retain their quality in times of drought, and can be grazed off a little bit at odd times.

Third, crop land is converted to pasture/hay. Both hay and pasture areas would be not segregated into which is for hay and which is for pasture, because with the type of grazing I want to have (primarily MIG), pasture left over would be cut and baled for winter bale grazing. (Think about how much land I have I am able to use when I start: 2 quarter sections!) All hay/pasture sections are fenced off (obviously), as well as the more obvious swamps on there. Haven't decided whether to section off different parts of one quarter section into different pastures, though it sounds to be worth it, considering the MIG systems to be used. Primary fertilizer will be the cow patties and legumes.

As for cattle, I think my last post of what I wanted to do still reside: buy a few 3-in-1's, keep replacements, build up herd to be large enough to start crossbreeding, cull for temperment, udders, fertility, conformation, BCS, etc., AI first few years or so (thinking about leasing bull option, possibly), cows fed grass only (no grain whatsoever), 60-90 day calving season, 50-60 d breeding season (too long?), what time of year still debatable....probably early spring as nature intended...maybe background calves, dunno about preconditioning...preg check? probably can do that myself...what else did I miss?

Oh yeah breed: maybe shorthorn Maybe cross with herf, or...red angus...wanna have some breed that is moderate framed, not too big (not the big framed girls that weigh >/= 1600 lbs), is an easy keeper that raises a soggy calf and has good temperment and great feed conversion with the type of forage I'm putting them on.

Anyway, anything anyone sees amiss or whatever let me know, I got a thick skin.

(sorry for the long post btw)

[agmantoo]

Karin L, I strongly disagree that raising cattle is a rich persons game. It can be but it doesn't have to be. I am proof of that! My methods are not those of a rich person and I am not in the business as a hobby. I am as sustainable as anyone that I am aware in the feeder calf business. If I had enough money to buy a small herd of heifers (commercial feeder calves) and had the funds to install a fence on leased land I know I could be successful. You can too!

[Up North]

Karin I think you have many good ideas and are on the right track.

Your opinion? ... with 2 quarter sections do you see an advantage to using the highly intensive mob grazing techniques practiced by Chad Peterson in Nebraska as compared to a more standard MIG program?
Which do you feel would work best for you at your location?

[Karin L]

Originally Posted by Up North

Karin I think you have many good ideas and are on the right track.

Your opinion? ... with 2 quarter sections do you see an advantage to using the highly intensive mob grazing techniques practiced by Chad Peterson in Nebraska as compared to a more standard MIG program?
Which do you feel would work best for you at your location?

I am not familiar with Chad Peterson's program, so I wouldn't know.

[Karin L]

Agman, I understand what you say about cattle not necessarily having to be a rich man's game. I guess I just made a poor attempt at a joke.

I don't aim to be in the cattle business as a hobby either, which is the reasons for striving to be low cost and sustainable. It's just the starting up costs and expenses versus revenues will be something else to handle...not only that but the actual doing of implementing my plans so they can be put to work...fencing is going to be a real killer, especially putting in permenant fencing, and redoing the handling facilities. Might be best to have the perimeter fence and other thing areas needed to be fenced off permanent custom done?

Thanks for the responses so far.

[agmantoo]

Karin L, having the perimeter fence contracted will let you get into position faster to have a product to sell. The expense to build the fence will be deductible over time. Having a durable fence that will let you have peace of mind has merit also. Concentrate on the things that you excel in doing. Manage the cattle and always keep current with new forages, techniques and do not hesitate to try new things. I encourage everyone to think outside the conventional methods. It will be the small but continuing innovations that will let you sustain and maintain in changing times. Learn all aspects of the business. Know what your customers want and provide that. Provide the product as the low cost producer and market to the ones that will reward you the best. Even in trying times there should be a margin that will see you through. Avoid as much debt as possible but not to the point that it hinders the operation. Think through the risk and reward of the actions before taking them. When the reward outweighs the risk, act.

[Up North]

Originally Posted by Karin L

I am not familiar with Chad Peterson's program, so I wouldn't know.

The following links may help explain Chad peterson's Mob Grazing:

[PDF] Mob Stocking - 9:49pm
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
In 24 hours, after being mob grazed, ... Chad Peterson in Nebraska to Greg Judy .... in mob grazing is that it is less forgiving. to the bottom enders. ...
http://www.acresusa.com/toolbox/repr...08_Salatin.pdf - Similar pages
Alberta Beef Magazine - BeefNews.com
Mob grazing November, 2007 Editor's note: A two day event in Nebraska this ... Chad Peterson's primary enterprise is custom grazing cows and calves during ...
http://www.albertabeef.ca/displayart...el_record=2817 - 27k - Cached - Similar pages
. : Hand 'n Hand Livestock Solutions
Today we spent all day at one of Chad Peterson’s ranches near Newport. We rode flatbed trailers out to where the mob was grazing. The mob consisted of 443 ...
handnhandlivestocksolutions.com/blog/?p=62 - 20k - Cached - Similar pages
Articles : Nebraska grazier finds free grass not nearly as ...
Nebraska grazier finds free grass not nearly as attractive once you’ve been paid to graze. Staff report. NEWPORT, Nebraska: Nebraska grazier, Chad Peterson, ...
http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/c...age.cgi?id=645 - 14k - Cached - Similar pages
Grazing management strategies vary with time and pressure
Chad Peterson, a rancher from Newport, Neb., has been using high density grazing on his north central Nebraska ranch. His original interest in low input ...
http://www.hpj.com/archives/2007/nov...mentstrategies. cfm - 50k - Cached - Similar pages
HMI Calendar of Events
Mob Grazing Seminar. August 21, 2008 Newport, Nebraska ... Terry and ranch owner Chad Peterson will share their understanding of the land health, ...
http://www.holisticmanagement.org/n7...lendar_07.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages

[Karin L]

Wowee. thanks upnorth. And agmantoo.

[frazzlehead]

Hi Karin, I live right near you!

One thing I'd suggest (if you haven't done it already) is to go to some of the livestock auctions and see what's selling well. I was amazed at what I learned just going to one auction and seeing what kind of sheep sold and which did not. Might give you some good information.

Were you at farmfair this year? I heard there were some good workshops set up - might be something to check into next year, if you didn't do that already.

Our 4H Beef leaders have taught me the little I know about cattle, so I can't tell you much from my own perspective, but I'm always interested to see how you are doing up in Barrhead.

[Up North]

Karin - Have you followed the writings of Kit Pharo from Cheyenne Wells, Colorado? I will not say his ideas or methods are all right or all wrong, but I do think that one can read his philosophies and management techniques, and ascertain for themselves if some or all of them can be applied on the home ranch. Offers a different viewpoint and makes you think anyways ... He has a weekly E-Mail newsletter you can subscribe to for free.

My other thought is this:
Aspire to do the Lion's share of Vet work on your own. This will give you a decided advantage.

[Karin L]

Frazzle: I been too busy with school and stuff to be attending any livestock auctions, but I definately will keep that in mind when I get school off my back! I have a goal to visit farmfair too, but this year, again, school has weighed my down. Oh well, there's always next year.

I've been keeping tabs a little on the 4H results of the show steers they have every year in town, and there's a heck of a lot of angus, both black and red, that get the highest championships. The charolais-cross (those yellow-white face cattle) also seem to get the high bang for the $buck$. Everything's gotten too Angusy for me though, I'd rather have something that kind of goes against the grain, in a way, yet still goes with the flow in terms of will do well for me on plain grass.

(I'm kinda worried we're not going to get any snow this year btw :P We've gotten some snow, but it has melted off almost right away...and what we get completely misses town, or vice versa. :roll: )

UpNorth: I honestly haven't read much into his philosophies, but do agree on the small frame will give you the best results, sort of thing. Leachman Company of Colorado (have you followed them at all?) also has some good info on what they look for in cattle, and things like that. They're different, like KP, but interesting to follow.

LOL funny you mention that about the vet work, I guess that's why I'm lucky I got the job at the local veterinary clinic doing everything imaginable that I do. Good way to learn about what to do with things dealing with cattle....there is also a short weekend-long course offered at Lakeland College in Vermillion, Alberta on AI and preg check, would like to attend that sometime when I can. But I been learning a heck of a lot at the vet clinic here too, and still will continue to learn.

Oh btw, I saved those links you posted, thanks again.