anyone breed belgian blues?

[onthespot]

I am not a cattle person, but on a horse forum somehow people got to talking about belgian blues and another poster said she read they needed to be dilivered by c-section, was wonderin how common are c-sections really and if so, how can it ever be cost effective to breed them?

[Karin L]

C-sections in BB's are very common, I'm sure because of their muscling around their rumps which interfere with the birth canal and pelvic area that have to open up significantly to let a large calf to pass through. The calf is already expressing the double muscling gene when it is born which also makes for delivering even more difficult. It wouldn't be cost effective for a cow-calf producer to breed them because they need to be AI'd, since they are too big to concieve naturally, and there has to be a bunch of facilities for housing them in because they wouldn't last out under minimum management conditions like the standard beef cows.

[Ronney]

This isn't a breed I know a lot about and they are not much farmed over here - we still tend to stick to the Hereford and Angus with a smattering of exotic and European breeds.

At one part of it I couldn't get a bull to service two of my cows so a neighbour let me use his BB. He showed none of that dreadful double muscleing that I've seen on websites but it was definately there. Both cows were Jerseys and both spat their calves out like peas out of a pod. The bull calf was subsequently worksed but he grew into a large, solid animal displaying some of the double muscleing. The other calf was a heifer which I now milk! She too shows the double muscleing and has a beam end on her like the back end of a bus. I use an Angus bull over her, she's never had calving problems and her calves are much sought after.

Further up the road from me is one of the few BB breeders in the country. His cattle show none of that exaggerated double muscling and the vet was telling me they have only ever had one assisted calving - and it wasn't a c-section. I think the problem lies in the breeding up of the double muscleing trait rather than in the breed themselves.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[francismilker]

One of my neighbors has bought a BB bull and uses him to cover his heard of angus cows. He is getting premium prices for the calves with higher weining weights. I'm kinda fond of the looks of these calves.

[spinandslide]

Yes, C-Sections are common with the BB's from what Ive been told. They are immensely muscled cattle and I beleive they have something called "Double Muscling" which makes them so big and results in the amount of troublesome births they have.

I would not touch them. Handsome cattle, but I dont need the headache.

[agmantoo]

I know that I am a contrarian and that I am somewhat unorthodox in my thinking and it amuses me with some prevailing thinking. Like the election today, up until the Congress majority was changed during the last election things were bopping alone OK IMO. The controlling majority in Congress go about their business and over the duration the economy shifts. Now the discussions prior to the election are that we need change. I don't know if I can weather any more change. Now back to cattle. Today's processing plants are geared to handling a specific size animal that will fit in a predetermined size box. The cuts in the box are sized to meet the size of today's average family. Anything animal wise outside these dimensions are going to get docked due to non conformance. People have been told that big large calves are what the markets wants. That is not true today, maybe was yesterday. As I have stated previously, production is not where it is if there is no profit at the point of origination. Breeding animals that have issues that have to be dealt with are a path to disaster IMO. I strongly suggest that whatever your choice of livestock give concern as to how that breed fits into your operation. If your place cannot meet the needs of a cow that gives 8 gallons of milk a day then get a cow that can give 4 and consider if you have the area for 2 each 4 gallon per day cows as opposed to having to go elsewhere and and pay a premium for feed for the 8 gallon per day cow. The only people that make any money off the exotics are those that are successful in convincing others that they need to purchase such animals. Seldom are things as they first appear or are presented!

[southerngurl]

Oh my, I had never seen these cattle before, I looked up pics... wow.

[willow_girl]

When I was testing, I had a farmer whose son kept a small herd of BBs on the side. They were milking a couple of the cows along with their Holsteins -- their production wasn't as high as a Holstein's, of course, but they were credible dairy cows. He never mentioned anything about calving problems, so I dunno! They are interesting cows, though, and very stout!

[Ronney]

Agman's post makes very good sense right across the board and he makes a very good point about the size of animals. I recently sent off my Angus bull and got penalised for him at the works. He was so large (not fat) that I couldn't use my own loading race to load him on to the truck and had to walk him down the road to the neighbours. When he got to the works I was penalised because they had to stop the chain to process him because of his weight. This slows down the whole killing chain and somebody has to pay so take on board that big is not always wonderful.

Willow, my Jersey/BB cross could be called an average producer I suppose and because I'm not milking for money, that doesn't matter. What she does have going for her though is sustainability. She will produce her 4 gallons a day on OAD milking for as long as I want to milk her no matter what the season and conditions without losing body condition and carrying a calf.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[6e]

Ever since this thread was started I've been reading about the BB. On crosses with regular beef cattle, it seems to be an excellent idea. According to tests done, their beef is actually lower in cholesterol than skinless white chicken breasts and beefalo. That's pretty good! Soo, we may just look into getting a BB bull to cross later on if we can afford one and with the crosses you don't have the trouble with calving.

[agmantoo]

I have a neighbor, well he is about 7 miles away, that is a breeder of registered Angus. He was going to attempt to move into the commercial end of the business with the addition of some Gelbvieh crossbreeding. He is an experienced cattleman and has the finances to do as he desires. It was a disaster. Major calving problems. I would tread lightly before making that plunge to BBs. I also doubt that the BB will finish on grass. If you want to do some interesting reading about a good beef producing breed that is not all that common to the US do some research on Murray Greys.

[Razorback21]

I have had Murray Greys the past two years and they are wonderful gainers on grass. Just as docile as herefords and the ones we haved had don't spook easily.

Just as Agmantoo says, they are not that common, but for some reason there is a good number of breeders in a swath from Central Kentucky over to the Middle of Missouri. The ones I have gotten have come from Kentucky.