Trial by Fire

ozark_jewels · #1 10/04/08, 12:43 PM

I'm starting to think of this weekend as being our equivilent of "Trial by Fire".

We have been milking this herd for a year.
We bought the entire cow dairy herd on Thursday. All of 72 cows.
Up till then 12 cows had calved this fall with easy births and healthy calves. Since we signed on the herd two days ago, two cows have calved.

The first was a *huge* bull calf laying upside down in the birth canal. After about 20 minutes of up-to-my-shoulders work inside the cow I got him turned and with the help of the hired man and my brother we managed to pull him. He was enormous but alive and healthy. The cow was fine.
That was on Friday.

This morning #30 was in labour. She is a promising second freshening Holstien. The labour just did not progress as normal so finally I went in and checked. Way down in the womb the calf was all balled up, upside down, and limp. Didn't feel right so I figured it was dead. Since it was limp and at the furthest extent of my arm, it was almost impossible to get it straightened out and pulled into the birth canal. Oh yes, and it was also huge. Finally after about an hour of work(and leaving messages at all the vets in the area), I got it straightened out enough to slip some chains around its feet and pull and guide it into the birth canal and out. Another *big* bull calf and yes, very dead. Been dead at least six hours I'd say.

So two mornings in a row, up to my shoulders inside two cows, covered from head to toe in birthing fluids(my siblings thought that was a hoot). Thankfully both cows seem to be fine and the calf we lost was just a bull calf.

I've dealt with lots of bad calvings before, it just seems funny that these two tough ones were directly after we signed the papers and bought the cows.

I'm being referred to as "Doctor Emily" now.LOL!!

The next birth had better be easier!

copperhead46 · #2 10/04/08, 02:03 PM

Wow, that just doesn't sound like a lot of fun...........I sure hope the rest have an easier time with the birthing. Did any of the previous cows have great big calves??
P.J.

bstuart29 · #3 10/04/08, 02:13 PM

Wow Doctor Emily

ya been busy the last few days. Congrats on getting the new herds and the calves but am sory the births have been so difficult. Are all the cows Holsteins? I'm with your siblings I'm sure it was a site for sure

I hope the additional births go more smoothly

ozark_jewels · #4 10/04/08, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperhead46

Wow, that just doesn't sound like a lot of fun...........I sure hope the rest have an easier time with the birthing. Did any of the previous cows have great big calves??
P.J.

No, all normal sized Jersey/Holstien calves......we were blessed with the two monster calves as soon as we bought the cows.LOL!

ozark_jewels · #5 10/04/08, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstuart29

Are all the cows Holsteins? I'm with your siblings I'm sure it was a site for sure

I hope the additional births go more smoothly

Most of the older cows are Holstiens(both of the described births were by Holstien cows). Many of the younger cows(3-4 years) are Jersey/Holstien. All the cows are bred to a Jersey bull. Yes, these huge calves were 1/2 Jersey......by the same bull as all the others. That bull we did not buy with the herd as we have two of our own Jersey bulls and that bull was getting very ornery.
Yes, it was a site. I was up to my shoulder inside #30 and every time she pushed, she gushed about 1/2 gallon of fluid straight down my shirt. Lovely.

ozark_jewels · #6 10/04/08, 04:28 PM

Guess I should explain why we(my immediate family) are buying 72 cows in times of financial crisis.....

This takeover has been in the works for over two years now. Its a well established raw milk cheeseplant. All the cow milk is produced right here by said cows, the goat milk is supplied by two local farms and trucked in. We make the cheese, age it for the required 60 days, cut it, package it and ship it all from the farm.
Its going to be an adventure but as I said we've been milking these girls for a year so we are easing into the whole thing. Best of all......I never run out of cheese to eat!

menollyrj · #7 10/04/08, 08:58 PM

While I've never been the puller, I've been the assistant to a couple of pullings, and even that was no fun.

It always seems that the biggest trials come just at the point when you really commit yourself to something, doesn't it?

-Joy

bstuart29 · #8 10/04/08, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Most of the older cows are Holstiens(both of the described births were by Holstien cows). Many of the younger cows(3-4 years) are Jersey/Holstien. All the cows are bred to a Jersey bull. Yes, these huge calves were 1/2 Jersey......by the same bull as all the others. That bull we did not buy with the herd as we have two of our own Jersey bulls and that bull was getting very ornery.
Yes, it was a site. I was up to my shoulder inside #30 and every time she pushed, she gushed about 1/2 gallon of fluid straight down my shirt. Lovely.

Cool, sounds like you all gained a very nice herd

I'm sorry Emily but for some reason that just makes me grin, glad it wasn't me

**gone-a-milkin** · #9 10/04/08, 09:37 PM

Seems like you are about due fo a run of better calving luck. Or maybe ONE more hard birth, then a bunch of nice little hiefers will pop out...!

Good luck w/ your new herd! What an awesome family business.

bstuart29 · #10 10/04/08, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Guess I should explain why we(my immediate family) are buying 72 cows in times of financial crisis.....

This takeover has been in the works for over two years now. Its a well established raw milk cheeseplant. All the cow milk is produced right here by said cows, the goat milk is supplied by two local farms and trucked in. We make the cheese, age it for the required 60 days, cut it, package it and ship it all from the farm.
Its going to be an adventure but as I said we've been milking these girls for a year so we are easing into the whole thing. Best of all......I never run out of cheese to eat!

Neat Emily, sounds like you all have a nice enterprise going there. I'm sure it will keep all of you busy for sure

Up North · #11 10/05/08, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

I'm starting to think of this weekend as being our equivilent of "Trial by Fire".

The first was a *huge* bull calf laying upside down in the birth canal. After about 20 minutes of up-to-my-shoulders work inside the cow I got him turned and with the help of the hired man and my brother we managed to pull him. He was enormous but alive and healthy. The cow was fine.
That was on Friday.

This morning #30 was in labour. She is a promising second freshening Holstien. The labour just did not progress as normal so finally I went in and checked. Way down in the womb the calf was all balled up, upside down, and limp. Didn't feel right so I figured it was dead. Since it was limp and at the furthest extent of my arm, it was almost impossible to get it straightened out and pulled into the birth canal. Oh yes, and it was also huge. Finally after about an hour of work(and leaving messages at all the vets in the area), I got it straightened out enough to slip some chains around its feet and pull and guide it into the birth canal and out. Another *big* bull calf and yes, very dead. Been dead at least six hours I'd say.

So two mornings in a row, up to my shoulders inside two cows, covered from head to toe in birthing fluids(my siblings thought that was a hoot).

Doc Emily good deal that you get lots of experience dealing with malpresentation calvings. The more difficult tasks you tackle and master the more confidence and ability you will gain. You will find that you are capable of doing the Lion's share of what a vet would do. Good to have a working relationship with a vet, and times they are irreplaceable.
A vet may not always be able to get to the farm fast enough to save a situation, whereas you may be able to when time is of the essence.

Making it a goal to minimize the "veterinary expenses" line on the Schedule F page of the Federal Tax return is a worthy goal for dairy farmers.

Best of luck in your new venture.
It will be a hill to climb for a long time I daresay, but I think your family is spot-on right in direct marketing the farm's production.
Cheers!

ozark_jewels · #12 10/05/08, 10:30 PM

I have had lots of experience assisting difficult goat births but only limited experience with difficult calf births. Thankfully the basics are the same with the main exception being that in cows, there are rarely three babies trying to come out at once!

We have a great vet where we used to live. Not only affordable, but we get along well. Unfortunately we moved about an hour away. Fortunately I still have her home phone number.

Cat · #13 10/05/08, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Thankfully the basics are the same with the main exception being that in cows, there are rarely three babies trying to come out at once!

Not only that, a cow is large enough you have more room to go in if you have to go fishing. I've not had to go in after kids but have lambs and it's miserable with my big man-hands.

ozark_jewels · #14 10/06/08, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat

Not only that, a cow is large enough you have more room to go in if you have to go fishing. I've not had to go in after kids but have lambs and it's miserable with my big man-hands.

I know, I have big hands too.

But I have to say that at least with goats, their little feet are easy to hang onto with three fingers and if the goat tries to move around while I'm in there, someone can just sit on her!

Both have their difficulties.
I have never felt anything that beats the satisfaction of watching kids/calves that you just untangled and delivered, lift their head, blink, and snort. Its so awesome.

bstuart29 · #15 10/06/08, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

I know, I have big hands too.

But I have to say that at least with goats, their little feet are easy to hang onto with three fingers and if the goat tries to move around while I'm in there, someone can just sit on her!

Both have their difficulties.
I have never felt anything that beats the satisfaction of watching kids/calves that you just untangled and delivered, lift their head, blink, and snort. Its so awesome.

I bet it's a awesome site Emily, maybe one day I will get to see it myself

myersfarm · #16 10/09/08, 08:38 AM

DOC EMILY.....just be sure to not spread the word to far.....I pulled some calfs of my own when first started and saved the cows and calfs......told a few people then the phone started ranging of the hook....can you come pull my calf the vet is busy.....then it got to be I was getting calls 40 miles away.....hard to say no but hard to drive that far take up that much of my time for FREE.... then it ended when I drove over the second time to the same farm to pull a BIG CALF From the same bull ....... I recommented for him he might need to change bulls ....he said why should I .....you keep coming over and pulling these big ones for me...and they grow faster then the little ones....that was the end of my farm VISITS

A small live calf it worth 100 times more then a large died one

tjm

Calfkeeper · #17 10/11/08, 09:28 AM

Wow. I am impressed with your ambition in the business and your vetting skills. I have watched my husband pull quite a number of calves, live and dead, and it always is hard for me, the not knowing if the calf will live or not.

I'd say that these things go in clusters; that is, everything will go A-OK for awhile, then you will have problem calvings and stillbirths. I hope your problems are over for this go around and that all goes smoothly for you from now on.

ozark_jewels · #18 10/11/08, 10:19 AM

Yes, I prefer those smaller vigorous calves anyday over the slower big calves. Especially when its cold calving. Same with goat kids.
I do get called to help with many problem kiddings and have pulled many stuck goat kids for friends, neighbors and strangers! Thankfully most of those folks have at least paid for my fuel. I have had a few goat kids named after me......not sure if thats something I should admit.....

I don't intend to offer calf pulling services though......the day after I feel like I've been run over by a truck.

The last couple calvings have been normal and easy.....bulls still. We are waiting on about 20 more cows to freshen now.

ozark_jewels · #19 10/14/08, 11:15 PM

Well, the saga continues. We had two easy births(both bulls), then another doozy last week. The cow didn't dilate and the calf's head was twisted back. Since the cow didn't dilate properly, there wasn't the room there should have been to manuever the calf. Called three vets, all were out working cow herds on this beautiful Saturday afternoon. Talked to one and after describing the situation she started talking c-section......so we decided to try again. Finally got the calf turned and pulled, another big bull calf. Cow is fine and calf is fine.
We have decided we are dealing with some deep-seated mineral deficiencies. The main ones showing up right now being selenium and copper which severely effect the breeding/birthing. So now we are working on getting free-choice minerals in front of these girls and giving selenium shots to the dry cows.
We were already leaning toward this with other things we see in the herd and these birthing difficulties have convinced us still further.
Today we did have a completely normal birthing....another bull!

Hey, at least it was a healthy calf and an easy labour.

bstuart29 · #20 10/14/08, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Well, the saga continues. We had two easy births(both bulls), then another doozy last week. The cow didn't dilate and the calf's head was twisted back. Since the cow didn't dilate properly, there wasn't the room there should have been to manuever the calf. Called three vets, all were out working cow herds on this beautiful Saturday afternoon. Talked to one and after describing the situation she started talking c-section......so we decided to try again. Finally got the calf turned and pulled, another big bull calf. Cow is fine and calf is fine.
We have decided we are dealing with some deep-seated mineral deficiencies. The main ones showing up right now being selenium and copper which severely effect the breeding/birthing. So now we are working on getting free-choice minerals in front of these girls and giving selenium shots to the dry cows.
We were already leaning toward this with other things we see in the herd and these birthing difficulties have convinced us still further.
Today we did have a completely normal birthing....another bull!

Hey, at least it was a healthy calf and an easy labour.

Wow Emily it has been quite eventful last couple of weeks for you all. I hope the additional births will be easier. I think I'll stick to hatching chickens