Question on PETA

[JR05]

I was watching the Ellen De... show friday and the pres. of PETA came on and anounced a new measure that they were trying to get passed in California. Has anyone heard about this ? It will affect farmers in California and they are hoping to get it past in the rest of the states. Something about chickens and cows and pigs, confinement and humane treatment.....ect.

[Chaty]

Didnt watch the show but the PETA people are just getting out of hand...some want ice cream made out of Brest milk...lol...and now they are trying to put people or farmers and rancher out of business...I wish they would mind their own business.

[Allen W]

Basically it would outlaw any confined animal operation. Hogs in stalls, chickens in cages.

The worst part is it would give HSUS or other such organizations the right to come onto your property at any time to inspect your facilities.

[Dirtslinger]

What would be wrong with banning factory farm practices? Along with confinement comes antibiotics. It bothers me that society itself doesn't call for its end.

This is the sort of thing PETA should actually be doing, I think it's actually for the better.

[homesteadforty]

Originally Posted by Dirtslinger

What would be wrong with banning factory farm practices?...

This is the sort of thing PETA should actually be doing, I think it's actually for the better.

I agree in theory, but in practice, I do have a question... has there ever been any studies/consideration as to whether we could actually feed our current population without "factory farms"?

[therealshari]

I can pretty much assure you that most "factory farms" who are reputable are already very much in tune to "humane operations". Temple Grandin, an animal activist who has taken her passion and turned it into a very helpful consulting business, works with many of the largest operations to ensure the animals have "rights" and are subject to as little stress as possible.

I can tell you from many years in the "factory farming" business of raising and processing rabbits commercially that it is in the best interests of everyone to treat animals with as little stress as possible. It makes for superior products.

As for PETA, their objective is to eliminate the use of animals for meat, clothing, or any other product used by humans. They'd just as soon we didn't make pets out of them either as that is still an expression of "dominance"... dominion by man of the beasts of the world.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by Dirtslinger

What would be wrong with banning factory farm practices? Along with confinement comes antibiotics. It bothers me that society itself doesn't call for its end.

This is the sort of thing PETA should actually be doing, I think it's actually for the better.

I agree, this is the thing PETA should be doing, and I'm glad they have brought such things into the public light....

BUT

They have gone WAY overboard on too many issues. If they had their way, nobody would be able to own any kind of animal, there would be no hunting, and we would all be vegans.

[MariaAZ]

Originally Posted by Dirtslinger

What would be wrong with banning factory farm practices? Along with confinement comes antibiotics. It bothers me that society itself doesn't call for its end.

Who will define "factory farm", and who will define "confinement"? A person who does not believe that animals belong in captivity probably has quite different ideas of what these words mean than the person who, say, has a family milk cow that is stabled at night in the barn and turned out during the day in a fenced pasture.

I don't have a lot of faith in common sense in lawmaking these days...

[ksfarmer]

Originally Posted by Dirtslinger

What would be wrong with banning factory farm practices? Along with confinement comes antibiotics. It bothers me that society itself doesn't call for its end.

This is the sort of thing PETA should actually be doing, I think it's actually for the better.

Another example of a someone's jaws going into motion without their brain being engaged.

[travlnusa]

I work with many large "factory dairy farms". While it is very true that they are not out on pasture, the key to high production is COW COMFORT.

Farms spend $1,000s on bedding, using sand, rubbber mats, water beds (yes really), and the like.

They also spend $1,000 on keeping things clean.

Why do they do this? It makes them money. If you keep cows cool, dry, and comfortable, you make more money.

If I were a cow and had to choose between a large dairy where I am living in a free stall barn, or live on summer pasture and spend all winter inside a barn tied up, I would always choose the free stall barn.

Yes, you can always find those few places that just dont give a XXX about the cows, but 1) the are very few in numbers, and 2) they will not be in business for long.

[Dirtslinger]

Originally Posted by homesteadforty

I agree in theory, but in practice, I do have a question... has there ever been any studies/consideration as to whether we could actually feed our current population without "factory farms"?

I'm sure it can be done. 'They' will say it can't of course.

[Dirtslinger]

Originally Posted by therealshari

I can pretty much assure you that most "factory farms" who are reputable are already very much in tune to "humane operations". Temple Grandin, an animal activist who has taken her passion and turned it into a very helpful consulting business, works with many of the largest operations to ensure the animals have "rights" and are subject to as little stress as possible.

I can tell you from many years in the "factory farming" business of raising and processing rabbits commercially that it is in the best interests of everyone to treat animals with as little stress as possible. It makes for superior products.

Yes there are regulations for factory farms. But I also think the industry lobbiests and drug companies have worked hard to allow things that sensible thinking people wouldn't agree with.
I feel cramming laying hens into cages, the hog industry in general, turkey production, and even feedlots, while legal, should become obsolete and the 'old way' can find it's way back.
I think animals should get a little sun on their backs when they choose.
And I stopped raising meat rabbits when I realized free ranging wasn't practical here. In many cases it's no better than factory laying hens, whose eggs I don't buy.

[Dirtslinger]

Originally Posted by ladycat

I agree, this is the thing PETA should be doing, and I'm glad they have brought such things into the public light....

BUT

They have gone WAY overboard on too many issues. If they had their way, nobody would be able to own any kind of animal, there would be no hunting, and we would all be vegans.

They SURE DO go overboard, and I'd never send them cash. But in this case, I'm not about to argue with them.

[Dirtslinger]

Originally Posted by ksfarmer

Another example of a someone's jaws going into motion without their brain being engaged.

Why don't you keep your negative bashing to yourself until you have something productive to say?

[FreeRanger]

I live in an area with lots of bovine animals...both dairy cows and beef cattle. The trend in dairy farms in this area is toward large free stall barns. I can see that free stall cows and even their replacement calves live the life of luxury, compared to most third world people.

The calves live in nice warm dry clean shelters and are visited everyday and can be seen from the road. they are usually located in the farmers front yard. I am sure most free stall barns are very clean inside.

Comparision to the old style of running the calves with the cows and bulls outside on grass pasture. Those calves are sleeping out in the dew every night. Shelter might just be the side of your mother cow. This is how many beef cattle are raised around here.

We plan to raise and breed Dexter cattle next year. We hope to do it on the rotational grazing method with temporary electric fence. They will be in full view of the public at all times.

99.9% of the farms in Green County Wisconsin are family own farms.

I am totally against any PETA effort to allow on site inspections without permission of the farmer. They, PETA has no role in regulating or limiting my farming methods.

[Dirtslinger]

Originally Posted by travlnusa

I work with many large "factory dairy farms". While it is very true that they are not out on pasture, the key to high production is COW COMFORT.

Farms spend $1,000s on bedding, using sand, rubbber mats, water beds (yes really), and the like.

They also spend $1,000 on keeping things clean.

Why do they do this? It makes them money. If you keep cows cool, dry, and comfortable, you make more money.

If I were a cow and had to choose between a large dairy where I am living in a free stall barn, or live on summer pasture and spend all winter inside a barn tied up, I would always choose the free stall barn.

Yes, you can always find those few places that just dont give a XXX about the cows, but 1) the are very few in numbers, and 2) they will not be in business for long.

I don't know a lot about the dairy industry and I do purchase store bought milk products. I know you are right about comfort. I sure don't approve of the BGH (still allowed?), and I sure don't like buying milk that could have antibiotics in it, but overall that is one factory where the animals run the show!

[milkinpigs]

Originally Posted by Dirtslinger

I don't know a lot about the dairy industry and I do purchase store bought milk products. I know you are right about comfort. I sure don't approve of the BGH (still allowed?), and I sure don't like buying milk that could have antibiotics in it, but overall that is one factory where the animals run the show!

No milk sold in stores has antibiotics in it.

Samples are taken from each farm.

Before the truck is allowed to unload,a sample is taken from the tanker.

If it tests positive for antibiotics,the truck is pulled out of line and not allowed in the unloading area.

There is no way milk containing antibiotics can enter the system.


I believe you are referring to rBST, very few processing plants will accept from the few producers that still use Posilac........that's why Monsanto sold that part of operations to Eli Lily.


PETA appreciates those who agree without taking the time to educate themselves.

[milkinpigs]

Originally Posted by JR05

I was watching the Ellen De... show friday and the pres. of PETA came on and anounced a new measure that they were trying to get passed in California. Has anyone heard about this ? It will affect farmers in California and they are hoping to get it past in the rest of the states. Something about chickens and cows and pigs, confinement and humane treatment.....ect.

Those that are interested should look into Ms. DeGeneres's history of "rescueing" dogs and returning them because they don't behave the way she wants them to.....

[genebo]

In most of the counties here in Virginia, livestock are required to be confined. The days of free range are over here. In some of the counties, those who fail to keep their livestock confined are criminals, guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.

Every night, I lock my free range chickens in their henhouse. If I didn't, I wouldn't have many chickens the next morning. We have foxes, owls, raccoons, possums, snakes, coyotes, bobcats, housecats and dogs. They all fancy a chicken once in a while. I believe it would be inhumane to leave them unconfined overnight.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[JeffNY]

As milkinpigs said, antibiotics is not in milk. If they do find antibiotics in your milk, you will pay for the entire load of milk, which can cost over $10,000. There are certain antibiotics that do not have any milk hold off. But the majority do, and some aren't allowed in dairy cows.


As far as the PETA deal. They would likely be against boxstall setups, they would be against keeping a cow that might have a tough time walking out in a pasture due to age, inside. Since PETA is against sending cows for slaughter, I guess ol' bessy would have to suffer out in the pasture, unable to walk, in pain, vs being inside, in a nice comfy stall with her food in front of her and plenty of water.

But since we are talking about PETA, whom is composed of mostly nut jobs, they can't be reasoned with. All I have to say is, if there was any sort of bill passed in any of the states, where certain organizations can pop in for inspection. I would grab the ol 16 guage, and shoot some pigeons right in front of them. Certainly can't point a gun at them, but you can intimidate them in other ways.

Of course you can put a spike strip in your driveway, so if they drive in, pop pop. Then when they cry foul. You simply say "your trespassing, we do this for our own protection".

Fight fire with fire.

Jeff