sale barn

[whiterabbit454]

i have been told that i shouldnt buy a calf at the sale barn because it will be sick and die on me they also told me that farmers sale their sick livestock at the sale barn is this true? how do i go about getting a couple calfs if its true? i want to raise at least 3 calfs 2 to sell and one to eat this is my plan thanks in advance

[montysky]

What age/size are you looking at? Also I would think twice about buying breeding stock (from an open auction house, but from a seed stocker no problems at all) but I would be okay with buying a calf for the table. If you have never picked out stock before bring someone with you that knows cattle the first few time. You can also buy from the rancher a lot will sell stock from day olds to 900-1000# steers/heifers to 1200# fat cattle. stay with beef breeds in the long run you will save money and time.

I like your plan, good luck.

[whiterabbit454]

thanks for the info and encourgement (sp?) i would like to start out with bottle babies and raise them to butcher age and size do you think i can make money at this? there is alot of cattle around here what is the market like now with the high fuel and feed prices? hopefully by the time they are ready to be sold it will be better one can only hope thanks

[topside1]

Whiterabbit, don't be afraid of the sale barn. Yes there are some animals that are sick, but in my opinion maybe 2%. Lots of the healthy ones will become sick once you get them home..STRESS and the auction germs, plus overfeeding by the new owners are the main killers of calves. If you have little to no experience raising calves, then listen to Monty and bring a seasoned buyer with you. Bring a checklist of what to look for in a healthy calf. I buy 75% of my calves from the sale barn, all were healthy, some needed repair due to the long day of STRESS, others don't. Remember you get what you pay for, if the price on a calf is very low, sure must be a reason but you just can't see it....I could go on and on, bring a friend and go for it.....TJ

[ksfarmer]

Originally Posted by topside1

Whiterabbit, don't be afraid of the sale barn. Yes there are some animals that are sick, but in my opinion maybe 2%. Lots of the healthy ones will become sick once you get them home..STRESS and the auction germs, plus overfeeding by the new owners are the main killers of calves. If you have little to no experience raising calves, then listen to Monty and bring a seasoned buyer with you. Bring a checklist of what to look for in a healthy calf. I buy 75% of my calves from the sale barn, all were healthy, some needed repair due to the long day of STRESS, others don't. Remember you get what you pay for, if the price on a calf is very low, sure must be a reason but you just can't see it....I could go on and on, bring a friend and go for it.....TJ

Topside is right on. You have to know what you are doing when you buy, no matter if it is privately or at a sale barn. The vast majority of cattle sold at auction are healthy, if not, they don't bring a good price. Anytime you buy a calf , take it from its mother, change feed, etc, etc, you run a risk that that critter will get sick. Due to stress mainly.

[topside1]

Whiterabbit, here is three auction calves a picked up two weeks ago...Don't want to brag but they should get ya motivated. Actually bought four that day and all four had minor issues, but are in fine shape now...Whenever you are ready to buy just start a new thread about, what to look for at the auction, I'd be glad to help.

[whiterabbit454]

thanks for all the info appreciate it very much

[haypoint]

Homesteadingtoday has had lots of threads about sick calves. Saddly, it is common for folks that have no idea what they are doing to buy calves then post here about what to do now that they are dying. Really sad. Just the stress of being shipped around and too much milk replacer often brings on scours. This watery bowel movement is a common quick killer of calves and is largely preventable.
I'd expect hay and grain to be expensive again this year. I doubt that you'd be able to sell at a profit if you have to buy your feed. Week old calves are fairly cheap, because they are most likely to die and require the most care and expensive milk replacer.
Buy one and if you haven't killed in an a couple months, buy another.

[bigmudder77]

i got 3 from a sale barn 2 were way off how old they were and pretty much took them off milk right away and one got really sick $150 vet bill other one pulled through it after i got some milk in him and about a weeks worth of time the other one is a big and doing well

and yes feed is gonna keep going up so its gonna be hard to make a profit right now i think i have 3 calves one eats alot of grain other 2 are starting to eat it i give mine 2-4lbs of grain a day (the one that eats it) the 2 that are starting get about a pound each a day cause they dont finsh the 2lbs each

lets say you give them 2lbs a day average 30 days in a month right there is 60lbs of grain any where from $7-14 a bag or more or less

but if you feed them 4lbs a day thats 120lbs again using the $7-14 a bag

if you get it for $7 a bag thats $7 times 2 bags (always round the feed up) is $14 per month per cow you get 3 calves $42 a month on grain if fed the 2lbs a day $504 a year

you get it for $14 a bag $14 times 2 bags is $28 times that by 3 calves thats $84 a month $1008 a year

NOW if you feed them 4lbs a day at $7 a bag times 3 bags thats $21 times that by 3 thats $61 a month $732 a year

if its $14 a bag $14 times 3 bags is $42 per calf times that by 3 is $126 a month $1512 for a year

And all this is with out hay and other things you dont plan to pay for

now there young yet they wont eat alot of grain but when they get older like 7 through 12 months old i feed them about 6-8lbs per day per calf to bulk them up (and thats usually winter around here so feed plus alot of hay)

and if you wait and get hay in the winter i seen it go over $10 a square bale

or if you get it off the feild i get mine from $1-3 a bale i usually get about 50-100 bales of hay and that usually lasts most of the time i have some left over for the next batch (i usually feed about a bale a week per calf in the winter and in summer about a bale to bale and a half a week for all 3)

again its all a numbers game some eat more than others some like other stuff and when there is grass out there i let them run in the pasture (well there in there all the time but fall through spring its not growing)

plus they drink alot of water and we have buckets and a 40gallon thing for water along with 4 5gallon buckets

so do the math its ALOT of money to feed out some calves my wife and i eat about a half a cow our self a year but with cook outs and stuff we eat the whole cow in the year then the other 2 we sell to family and friends most of the time we make enough to break even but with grain going be a close one

wow alot of typing when i could of just said do the math for the whole year lol o well

[whiterabbit454]

haypoint thats good advice i will do that i have to put up the fence and get everything ready i would like to make a profit i have lots of hay good pasture

[topside1]

What part of KY do you live in? Anywhere near the TN state line?.....

[whiterabbit454]

Originally Posted by topside1

What part of KY do you live in? Anywhere near the TN state line?.....

i live in owen county fity miles northeast of louisville 50 miles north of lexington and fity miles south of florence were just 50 miles from everywhere

[whiterabbit454]

Originally Posted by bigmudder77

i got 3 from a sale barn 2 were way off how old they were and pretty much took them off milk right away and one got really sick $150 vet bill other one pulled through it after i got some milk in him and about a weeks worth of time the other one is a big and doing well

and yes feed is gonna keep going up so its gonna be hard to make a profit right now i think i have 3 calves one eats alot of grain other 2 are starting to eat it i give mine 2-4lbs of grain a day (the one that eats it) the 2 that are starting get about a pound each a day cause they dont finsh the 2lbs each

lets say you give them 2lbs a day average 30 days in a month right there is 60lbs of grain any where from $7-14 a bag or more or less

but if you feed them 4lbs a day thats 120lbs again using the $7-14 a bag

if you get it for $7 a bag thats $7 times 2 bags (always round the feed up) is $14 per month per cow you get 3 calves $42 a month on grain if fed the 2lbs a day $504 a year

you get it for $14 a bag $14 times 2 bags is $28 times that by 3 calves thats $84 a month $1008 a year

NOW if you feed them 4lbs a day at $7 a bag times 3 bags thats $21 times that by 3 thats $61 a month $732 a year

if its $14 a bag $14 times 3 bags is $42 per calf times that by 3 is $126 a month $1512 for a year

And all this is with out hay and other things you dont plan to pay for

now there young yet they wont eat alot of grain but when they get older like 7 through 12 months old i feed them about 6-8lbs per day per calf to bulk them up (and thats usually winter around here so feed plus alot of hay)

and if you wait and get hay in the winter i seen it go over $10 a square bale

or if you get it off the feild i get mine from $1-3 a bale i usually get about 50-100 bales of hay and that usually lasts most of the time i have some left over for the next batch (i usually feed about a bale a week per calf in the winter and in summer about a bale to bale and a half a week for all 3)

again its all a numbers game some eat more than others some like other stuff and when there is grass out there i let them run in the pasture (well there in there all the time but fall through spring its not growing)

plus they drink alot of water and we have buckets and a 40gallon thing for water along with 4 5gallon buckets

so do the math its ALOT of money to feed out some calves my wife and i eat about a half a cow our self a year but with cook outs and stuff we eat the whole cow in the year then the other 2 we sell to family and friends most of the time we make enough to break even but with grain going be a close one

wow alot of typing when i could of just said do the math for the whole year lol o well

i understand thanks for the info

[montysky]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit454

thanks for the info and encourgement (sp?) i would like to start out with bottle babies and raise them to butcher age and size do you think i can make money at this? there is alot of cattle around here what is the market like now with the high fuel and feed prices? hopefully by the time they are ready to be sold it will be better one can only hope thanks

You're welcome Whiterabbit, to be honest the only bottle babies I have are not planned I did something wrong or the cow did, we bred by either AI or a mop bull. John Aka Topside does have the time put in with the BB so a lot of good info there.

What I have: I know that Holstein steer is a very good beef animal it will take longer and you can't feed it like a beef breed. But what gets to the table is a top cut of beef, IMF numbers are good. Raise the steer right and you can hit Choice grade.

I don't know if that holds true for Jersey steers. But one of the dairy folk here should have that info.

My take would be do the numbers for raising a Jersey/Holstein from a week of age to market weight vs. a Angus/Hereford/char etc from 400-500 pounds to market weight then go from there. In your neck of the woods I hear that a smoke=Angus/char cross makes a nice animal.

[whiterabbit454]

thanks there alot of cattle around here but i dont know what kind i will find out im gtoingt to start atending the cattle sales at the sale barn and see what is going on there

[randiliana]

The sale barn is NOT the big bad wolf that it is made out to be. Most of the cattle there are stuff that people like you, me and anyone else on thes board bring to the sale. They are healthy, and decent quality animals. But, like everything else in this world, there is that small percentage of 'bad' in it. You have to know what you are looking for, and at. If you aren't experienced, find someone to help you out that is.

A good rule of thumb is that if the animal is selling a lot cheaper than others of it's type, there is probably something wrong with it. When starting out, it would be a good idea to expect to pay an average, to an above average price for whatever it is you are looking for. If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Also, you must expect to have purchased animals that will likely become sick. Just the stress of being transported, let alone run through an auction ring, can be enough to make an animal sick. Baby calves are the worst for becoming sick, because they do not have that extra reserve to fall back on. They are still in the building stages. And often they are not fed colostrum at birth. Many people do not realize the importance of colostrum. If you are looking at baby calves, look for ones with bright, alert eyes, with perky ears, and that are interested in their surroundings. Avoid anything with droopy ears, dull eyes, and that does not seem to be interested in the surroundings. Also stay away from anything that has runny manure, or a dirty bum.

As for raising them, one must realize that they are a HUGE commitment. You must be there to feed them at least twice a day, every day, for 6-8 weeks. Money wise, the price you pay to buy them is really the least of your expenses. Baby calves cannot be simply turned out on grass. They do not have the ability to digest grass well enough to grow on it. Up until about 4-6 months they need to be fed a high protien diet in order for them to grow well. After that you can get away with cutting the protien back somewhat. And protien is expensive.

[whiterabbit454]

thanks randiliana i apreciate all the imput of everyone when i get a calf it will be for the long haul this is something i want to do

[Mark T]

I vote for stopping by dairy farms and buying directly from the farm. You'll get about the same price and will be more assured that the calf got colostrum. They also won't be exposed to so many germs as they would at a sale barn.

Be aware of the price of milk replacer: it is getting to be a beast.

I also concur with the not overfeeding issue. You can kill them with kindness.

[whiterabbit454]

thanks Mark T i just have to find a dairy that is close by i appresiate all the info from everyone

[Jan in CO]

Whiterabbit, we're doing this for the third year in a row. We get DAIRY calves, directly from a dairy for about 85.00 each. They have had colostrum, and are healthy. I wouldn't do it if I had to buy the replacer, tho. I have dairy goats, and get enough milk to feed them, and they do well on it. Much less expensive to keep the goats and feed them, getting more than enough milk for the calves and us, plus some to can and freeze for lambs later on. Jan in Co