A dexter heifer without papers?

Dirtslinger · #1 05/29/08, 07:29 PM

My goals include breeding and hopefully improving dexters. Ideally even selling limited breeding stock.
Is it worth starting out with an unpapered heifer? There aren't many around here, and less available, and this girl is a good price.
Thanks again!

darbyfamily · #2 05/29/08, 08:37 PM

You may not have a hard time selling your offspring if you find folks who dont mind non registered, but you wont get as much money out of them when you go to sell. Obviously, there are folks like you and I, who would love the animals but not the higher price of registered animals, so you may be able to sell them anyway....

I guess it just depends on how much you hope to make off of them when you sell.

Slev · #3 05/30/08, 05:52 AM

I guess my question would be, just how do you plan on improving the Dexter breed?

They are already quite an established breed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I was thinking one of the reasons to buy or have dealings with Registered livestock, is that they fall within the breed "standards" of that specific animal. Throughout history, mankind has been "tweaking" various animal breeds, some with great success, others not so much so. But starting off such an attempt, would seem to me to get better results if you started with the constants of the breed standards. <JMO>

linn · #4 05/30/08, 07:10 PM

I guess that you have to decide which is most important to you. Do you want to raise and sell registered stock or do you want a family cow for milk and beef. There are always people in the market for a good family cow. My little Dexters don't have papers. I wish that they did; but they were what was available to meet my needs. I am very happy with my little Dexter milk cow. The other two are raising two nice Dexter/Angus cross calves. I do have semen from good Dexter bulls. I have AI'd my milk cow and gotten two Dexter calves from her. I will try to catch the other two before our young bull does and AI them also.

sammyd · #5 05/30/08, 07:58 PM

If you want to improve the herd you will need to have a papered animal. Breeding up a grade animal isn't going to do much for you (monetarily) or the registry.

Tiffin · #6 05/31/08, 09:01 AM

I don't understand how they can be called Dexters at all without being registered. They must be Dexter crosses. I have two Dexter/Jersey and one Dexter/Dutch belted. I do not call them Dexters. I do have registered Dexters as well. If they are considered pure Dexters why weren't they registered in the first place?

mistletoad · #7 05/31/08, 09:37 AM

We have one dual registered and one unregistered Dexter - no question about the pedigree, just that the previous owner did not get around to the tattooing and paperwork on the young heiffer. We got the young one just before she turned 1 yr old and also failed to get her tattooed and papered before she turned 1 yr, so now it becomes more involved, but she is not unregisterable, just unregistered for now.

Dirtslinger · #8 05/31/08, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slev

I guess my question would be, just how do you plan on improving the Dexter breed?

They are already quite an established breed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I was thinking one of the reasons to buy or have dealings with Registered livestock, is that they fall within the breed "standards" of that specific animal. Throughout history, mankind has been "tweaking" various animal breeds, some with great success, others not so much so. But starting off such an attempt, would seem to me to get better results if you started with the constants of the breed standards. <JMO>

Well, by culling of course, as well as bringing in new blood with traits that I would like- such as milking lines.

Thanks for all the tips here. I decided to not jump on this cheap heifer and will be visiting a dexter breeder with weekend to view some registered stock!

Tiffin · #9 05/31/08, 11:16 AM

Mistletoad: Just out of curiosity, why would it be more involved? unless you can't get signatures of original owner. Not registering means the animal is worth less and her calves are worth less if you should want to sell any. If you never want to then unregistered doesn't matter. I do not tattoo. I register them as being tattooed and if someone should want to buy one of my animals, I would tell them, then it is up to them if they want it tattooed then they do it or pay to have it done by a vet. It probably would have to be done if selling out of state, but there again I don't do that either; too much of a hassle.

linn · #10 05/31/08, 12:20 PM

Tiffin, my three Dexter cows are full blood Dexters; but the lady that owned them just never bothered with the paperwork for any of her cows. She told me when I bought the first one that she could go back on her paperwork and find out the sire and dam of the original cow and bull that she bought. All these cows came from that first match. It would have taken more trouble than it was worth for me to try and gather all of the paperwork and try to convince the Dexter Assoc. to register my cows, so they remain unregistered purebred cows.

jirwin · #11 05/31/08, 01:08 PM

Its in my mind what you can afford and what you need. If you're gonna show or sell, you're gonna want registered. But unregistered dexters do the same thing as registered, just without a $$$ piece of paper, saying "I have Pure Dexters". Some would rather buy unregistered, b/c of $$, and their individual needs and wants.... But of course my cows can be registered, and I plan having some of both: registered and Non to cater to both ideals.--J

mistletoad · #12 05/31/08, 01:19 PM

Tiffin: I believe she now requires a DNA test for registration as she is over 1 yr old. Is that not correct? I would love to be wrong

G. Seddon · #13 05/31/08, 03:14 PM

The ADCA website (www.dextercattle.org) has all the information you need to register or transfer Dexters. Membership in the ADCA is $30 a year.

IMO, selling a registered animal without an ID (tag, tattoo) is NOT an ethical thing to do. You are shifting the responsibility for this to the new owner, who has no certainty that the animal's paperwork matches the animal. This is a disservice to the buyer and the breed. If you don't keep up with the paperwork, you are contributing to the confusion and expense of being able to register future calves.

Buyer beware: Do your homework! Familiarize yourself with the registration/transfer process. If you think you are buying a registered Dexter, make sure the paperwork has been done and the animal can be permanently identified.

genebo · #14 05/31/08, 11:18 PM

There's been a lot of discussion lately about requiring DNA parentage testing before registering a Dexter. If you can get tail hairs from the last registered parents and each generation in between, then you will be able to prove the ancestry of your animal. The board should readily accept such evidence.

It can be costly at $35 each DNA parentage test. Plus the fee for registration goes up if the cow is over 2 years old.

There's no substitute for keeping up with the paperwork. When you buy an unregistered cow or bull with an eye to getting it registered, you've taken on quite a chore.

Like Ms Seddon said, it's not proper for a breeder to sell unregistered stock while claiming it can be registered. Maybe it can, but the buyer would be much better off selecting one with the papers in order and the registration fees already paid.

When I sell a calf, I offer the buyer the choice of associations to register it in. I then register the calf in that association and transfer it to the buyer. If the buyer wants it registered in both associations, the second registration is on them.

If I sell a registered Dexter, I pay for the transfer.

The ADCA encouraged this for all breeders when I first joined. I thought it was fair and have done it ever since. In fact, every Dexter I've ever bought was transferred to me at the seller's expense.

I've always bought high quality stock from reputable breeders. I guess that's why they are high quality breeders.

Buying an unregistrered animal with an idea of "improving" the breed and somehow getting your grade cattle registered in an association that only accepts the offspring of two registered parents is a dead end. Any unregistered parents in the ancestry disqualifies the calf from registration.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

Slev · #15 06/01/08, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtslinger

Well, by culling of course, as well as bringing in new blood with traits that I would like- such as milking lines.

sorry Dirtslinger, I guess I wasn't sure what you meant, there are people out there making up "composite or designer" breeds. (not that there is
anything wrong with that, other than how they go about it maybe)

Dexter_Cattle · #16 06/01/08, 05:12 PM

Unregistered Dexters are worth about 42 cents per pound, and it doesn't matter how many times you breed them to registered, they never will be registered and still worth 42 cents per pound. If you had one that won every show for the breed, without papers, they are worth .42 cents per pound, so I would start off with the best registered that you can find, and breed to the best bull you can find and afford. That is what we did and continue to do.

Hope that helps

Slev · #17 06/01/08, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexter_Cattle

Unregistered Dexters are worth about 42 cents per pound, and it doesn't matter how many times you breed them to registered, they never will be registered and still worth 42 cents per pound. If you had one that won every show for the breed, without papers, they are worth .42 cents per pound, so I would start off with the best registered that you can find, and breed to the best bull you can find and afford. That is what we did and continue to do.

Hope that helps

Yep, like my one friend said about buying horses; "If you buy and breed a nag, you wind up with a nag foal, but if you buy a $10,000 horse and breed it, .....

copperhead46 · #18 06/02/08, 08:24 AM

I realize that you've already said that you were going to pass on the "grade" heifer. I'll just put in my 2 cents worth as to the concept of improving lines without a registered animal. If the animal isn't registered, you don't have a way of running the blood lines and figuring out what animal you want to breed to what bloodlines to get the desired traits. I know that papers can't give milk or raise a good beefy calf, but they can sure tell you what the animal is capable of producing with a lot better accuracy.
P.J.

linn · #19 06/02/08, 09:02 AM

At the risk of getting my head chewed off, I just have to insert this. Just because an animal is not registered, doesn't mean they are inferior as a meat or milk animal. It just means that they are not registered. I would rather have my unregistered Dexter milk cow than some of the registered animals I have seen. I know registration is a passionate subject for some Dexter owners; but that doesn't mean a non-registered Dexter is a mutt.

genebo · #20 06/02/08, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linn

.......... I know registration is a passionate subject for some Dexter owners; but that doesn't mean a non-registered Dexter is a mutt.

It doesn't mean it's not, either. Without good paperwork being kept, you really don't know what you have. That's what registering the animals helps to do. It provides a way to trace the ancestry of an animal, and through that, to be able to make good assumptions about what traits will be present in the offspring.

Breeders would be lost without the record of ancestry.

Most breeders don't register their steers, because they can't be bred. If you're just going to eat it, there's not much reason to register it.

In the US, the registration papers are a symbol of purity, since the registries don't accept any but fullblooded animals.

Genebo
Paradise Farm