question/advice

tripletmom · #1 05/07/08, 06:34 AM

before we call the vet, does anyone have any thoughts on the following - we have a highlander cow who calved for the first time last June, a stillborn bull calf. She is quite obviously going to have another calf as she has been bagging up for several weeks now. Past experience is that that can go on for several months prior to calving.

Here's the question - for the past 2 weeks she has been very swollen around the under the tail area and she has had a clear, mucousy discharge. DH says when she pees, she holds her tail out for a while after she is done. She's not hardly as big, pregnancy wise as she was when she calved the last time and we didn't see her be bred, so not sure when the calf is due, I guess is could be any time except like I said, she's not as big around as last time(which probably isn't a good indicator).

Our vet quit doing large animals and the vet we'd have to call is a huge, expensive practice who many years ago waited 24 hours to return a call left with their answering service at 5 pm one night, (needless to say, the calf died in the meantime). So really don't want to call them unless absolutely necessary.

Thanks for any advice or thoughts you might have, you guys out here are always helpful!!

Ken Scharabok · #2 05/07/08, 07:27 AM

Can you take her into the vet, perhaps in a horse trailer, to be checked there? She may be having birthing problems.

tripletmom · #3 05/07/08, 07:28 AM

maybe, didn't think about that.

francismilker · #4 05/07/08, 07:47 AM

By the description you give, everything sounds normal to me. Cows do enlarge in the vulva area before calving and they also string a clear mucus discharge. (some longer than others) I personally wouldn't worry until she's up and down a lot and it appears she's trying to push without any results. I've seen cows go like this for longer than a month before. Keep us posted on it. I could sure be wrong. It's happened before!

tripletmom · #5 05/08/08, 07:10 AM

Thank you francismilker, this is encouraging!

Ronney · #6 05/08/08, 07:29 AM

Yes, I go with Francis on this. The size of her isn't indicative of anything really and everything else sounds quite normal. I wouldn't like to hazard a guess when it will happen but when she moves off on her own and appears to be restless, that's when you start watching.

Do you have neighbours you can call on to give help/moral support if needed?

Cheers,
Ronnie

randiliana · #7 05/08/08, 08:42 AM

I'll third Francis also. Everything sounds OK to me. When she's ready, you will see the difference. She will go off by herself, do a lot of wandering and probably be holding her tail out (pump handle position). Then she'll have the waterbag. Until that happens, there isn't much you can do. Give her an hour MAX after she has the waterbag, but do leave her alone. The more often you interrupt her the longer she will take. Chances are that she will do this all on her own.

copperhead46 · #8 05/08/08, 11:23 AM

sounds to me like you're going to have a calf, pretty soon...............let us know

tripletmom · #9 05/08/08, 01:36 PM

DD just called and we have a baby, and it's alive!!!! Don't know anything else at this point except it's cute. Thanks all!!

Ronney · #10 05/09/08, 05:58 AM

A good outcome.

I'm pleased for you. Photo?

Cheers,
Ronnie

tripletmom · #11 05/09/08, 06:53 AM

a lovely, purebred highlander bull calf.

Next question tho, he can't seem to find where to nurse. He snuffles around and keeps ending up under her tail. He seems aggressive enough, and she stands for him but how long can he go without the clostrum before it's a problem? These cows are fairly tame, but not to where we can actually guide baby to the udder. We don't have a squeeze shoot or anything like that to restrain her long enough to show him the way. Her teats are huge and swollen.

I'd love to post pics, but the only internet access I have is at work, we're a little techno challenged at home. My DD works at Wally world, maybe I'll have her download some to a disk for me.

Ronney · #12 05/09/08, 07:27 AM

I'm trying to work out (between your time and mine) when he was born. About 6 hours ago? He should have found the udder by now but sometimes they do bumble around a bit, and even after they've found it, they'll bumble around the next time. Do any of the quarters look as though some milk may have been taken out of them. If he has drunk he won't have taken a lot and it will be probably hard to tell - which is not very helpful. Keep an eye on him and perhaps be prepared to build a rough chute out of gates against a wall to get her in and help show him the way. But don't panic at this point. Ideally a calf should have a feed of colostrum within 12 hours of birth and they are surprisingly robust immediately after birth and for a day or two afterwards even without food so he may find it on his own.

As a matter of interest, what is her udder like? Big, fat teats on a low slung udder can make it difficult for a calf to find and deal with.

It's not up to me to tell others how to manage their farms but when and if money allows, consider building a small set of yards with a race (chute) for stock handling. Sooner or later you will need them for this type of situation, drenching, vaccinating, hoof care, dehorning, dealing with injuries etc. and it makes life so much easier. In many cases over here, vets will not come out to look at cattle if they cannot be yarded.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers,
Ronnie

tripletmom · #13 05/09/08, 07:37 AM

It's been almost 24 hours, yesterday sometime. DH thinks am because he suspected she was ready when he did chores in the morning, and DD called me around 1:30 in the afternoon and he was there. If he's still bumbling around this morning, DH said he was going to try to steer him in the right general direction, they are that tame. Otherwise, I'm afraid we're going to have to start him on a bottle tonight, I hate to do that but I won't loose this calf if I can help it either.

Her udder is fairly low slung, and the teats are fat. And I know we need some sort of containment system, I think it would be kind of tricky with their horns. Maybe not if it was low enough for them to keep their heads above. They are highlanders.

nomad7inwi · #14 05/09/08, 07:54 AM

We have a similar situation, calf still has not nursed from his mom. I spoke to my vet to get BoSe, and he said most importantly he needs that colostrum. So if you don't think he's nursing, milk her and make sure he gets a couple quarts of colostrum.

randiliana · #15 05/09/08, 08:52 AM

A calf needs colostrum within the first 24 hours of birth. And the sooner the better. Within 6 hours is ideal. Calves are born without any immunity, and in order for them to be protected, they must be fed colostrum. The gut can absorb the antibodies from colostrum when the calf is born. It begins to close shortly after birth, and by 24 hours is essentially closed, and the calf will no longer be able to absorb any antibodies. The colostrum is also rich in fat, which gives the calf an extra boost.

If your calf is 24 hours old and has not had any colostrum, you have a hard row to hoe. They can, and do make it, but the odds for them getting sick, and often severely sick are very high.

Colostrum is the MOST important part of raising baby calves, whether they are on the cow or bottle fed!!

randiliana · #16 05/09/08, 08:55 AM

As for a poor udder, if the cow has teats that are large enough the calf cannot get ahold of them, you either need to milk her enough so he can, or you need to remove the calf and bottle feed it. Poor udders cause a lot of problems. From mastitis, to dead calves. I don't know how bad this cow's udder is, but they generally get worse with time. So if it is bad this year expect it to be as bad or worse next year!!

tripletmom · #17 05/09/08, 09:06 AM

DH says he's up, he's perky and 'looks' like he has a full belly. He says one teat looks like it may have been sucked on, kind of dry and scaly. We're hopeful. I'll let you all know on Monday morning how it turns out. Thanks so much for the advice and all, I appreciate it.

tripletmom · #18 05/12/08, 06:31 AM

well, 'Bumble' is still alive, but he's not found the spot yet that we can tell. Mama has very short legs and it does appear that he's looking high and going in from behind. He does keep looking though. DH started with a bottle on Saturday, only a quart 2x a day with the hopes that it won't fill him up and maybe eventually he'll find Mama.

nomad7inwi · #19 05/12/08, 06:54 AM

Yesterday we finally got our calf, Cinco, to nurse from mom. He's a week old today. He would suck on our finger so we'd bring it to the teat. I think mom understood, because she actually laid down. We switched our finger with the teat. We've been doing this for two days, at least 4 times a day. Finally on the 3rd feeding yesterday he was able to find the teat himself after letting go. He was also able to find it while she is standing now too. We'll make sure he didn't forget overnight. But I just wanted to suggest that there is hope that your calf will still figure out what to do.