intensive rotational grazing

[lonelyfarmgirl]

who here does this? I am interested to know the number of cattle you run on what size of pasture for how long? (did that make sense? sorry)

and what you have planted there, plus any other details you maybe could provide me? thanks

[Up North]

I guess you would need to clarify your use of the word "intensive". Are you asking about "ultra high stock density", or more commonly called mob grazing, where large numbers of cattle are put on a very small parcel, and then moved to a new parcel 3 times daily?

Or are you asking about management intensive grazing, where cattle are allocated anywhere from 12 to 48 hours worth of feed and then moved accordingly?

At present, we put 70 cows on about 4-5 acres more or less, and every 24 hours we move them to a new parcel. They are currently on cool season grasses of fescue with some clover, alfalfa, and Korean Lespedeza in the mix.

Here is a pic of them after finishing an area and asking for the next

It is best to have a flexible system, so you can vary the size of parcel being offered to reflect the amount of forage available, usually the number of cattle in a group will be about the only constant during a growing season.
Rainfall, ambient temperatures, differing maturity times for different plant species, and soils will all affect the amount of forage available.

We planted Triticale( a wheat-Rye hybrid) last fall, and the cows will be grazing that soon. By June they will be moving to warm season grasses like Coastal Bermuda and native grasses. This summer we will plant Purple TopTurnips and a cereal grain for the cows to graze in November and maybe December weather depending.

[CatherineE]

Hi. We have a much smaller herd...only 11 American Milking Devon, rescued from drought stricken pastures last fall. We're renovating pastures that have been left fallow for a number of years, and we're using our cows to do that, as they gain condition. We've been really pleased, so far, with how things are progressing! We don't yet live on our land, so we set up a paddock with portable electric fencing that we think will feed them for two or three days, and rotate them two to three times a week. My BIL was amazed at the difference in the pasture after just two rotations! I'm impressed with how many grass and legume species are sprouting that we had no idea were there!



Read all you can from Joel Saladin, A. Voisin, The Stockman Grassfarmer, and Gerald Fry. Welcome to the adventure!

[furholler]

Ditto on the things to read.

[agmantoo]

The entire herd is not shown as some of the cattle are at the water source. However there are more than 100 total head of cattle on this 7/10 acre. At this location the cattle are being rotated daily. I am now clipping pastures to encourage the forages to regrow in greater abundance and to prolong the forage by now allowing it to not go to seed. We are farther South and the forage has grown more than our northern posters,
Learning how to adjust the forage to the needs of the cattle is one of the more difficult tasks.

[Up North]

The most important thing you can plant to get started is fence posts.

[CatherineE]

Originally Posted by Up North

The most important thing you can plant to get started is fence posts.

I LOVE that, and it's very true! Thanks, Up North!

Agmantoo...gorgeous photo. Wish we could see your animals up closer, but the view is fantastic! Are those Angus? What's your water source? I'm gathering that you've fenced them out of that pretty pond to preserve the banks and the water condition? However, I'm a bit confused on that last bit...you have 100 head on 7/10s of one acre??? Is that the individual paddock size? Wow...you must really get some good Mob action from them at that concentration! How far south are you? Based on how leafed out our trees are in comparison to yours, I'd say we're probably further south from you. We're near Houston, Texas, on 40 acres with half in woods, running 11 head only. We're just got our herd late last fall, and were totally spoiled by how really easy it was to gradually rotate the herd through our stockpiled forages last fall/winter. However, the spring lush is nothing short of amazing, down here. The grass is seeding out at about 8 inches, so we've already had to just barely clip some of the paddocks to remove most of the seed heads, as the cows just can't keep ahead of the grass. Any advice and/or insights will be most appreciated by us all!

[wstevenl]

How many acres are your 11 on? and how big are your paddock sizes?
I'm going to soon be putting 6 Dexters on an MIG/rotational program.

[agmantoo]

CatherineE, I am in NC. The pasture is much higher now than when the picture was taken about 8 or 10 days ago. I take pride in the ability to grow grass and I enjoy experimenting. Little things like not going on the ground when it is wet avoid compaction, not letting the cattle damage the paddocks and controlling the grazing also encourage growth. Right now I am clipping the taller forage to encourage the grass to spread out and restricting the grass from going to seed to prolong the growth. These are commercial Angus cows purchased initially from an auction for feeder cattle. I now retain my own heifers. I have paddocks that I can vary the size. I stepped off the one the cattle are in to determine its size for someone else, so I know the size. I let the calves graze ahead of the brood stock by placing the dividing hot wire high enough for the calves to walk under. Here is a closer look at the herd. Realized the herd came out of winter with the worst drought that we have on record and it is still dry. This is the same location as in the other pic but at the paddock. The second pic was taken only a few days ago, can the tell the cattle are rapidly putting on weight?

[CatherineE]

Wow, Guys...your cows are gorgeous!!! Both the Black Angus and the Ayrshires look so healthy, happy and hefty! Are you both strictly grass fed, or are you doing something else, in addition? Also, what kind of mineral supplementation are you using? Talk to me?! lol.

My girls still look pretty scrawny compared to your beauties! Granted, we were only able to get them because their pastures dried up during the drought last year. They were rail thin when they got to us, so I suppose they aren't doing too badly, seeing as they are recuperating.

Up North...your Ayrshires are amazing! I thought they were beef cows, at first, but the coloring looked like Ayrshires...so I looked again! lol. I checked out your lovely website, and I just can't even imagine the logistics it must have taken to move a working dairy, lock stock and milk cow! My hat is off to you! I would LOVE to talk to you some more about your experiences with Ayrshires. I was looking for one, back before we got our Milking Devon, and couldn't find any. It's soo cool to see you with an entire herd! On your site, you mention that you have other breeds mixed in, like Dutch Belteds. I'd be really interested in what your comparison of the various lesser milking breeds...esp. how they would fit in to a grass only dairy set up.

As for milking, well...I'm just learning about that, in addition to the MiG, etc. We have only the one 7 yr. old range cow, and when she freshened 2 months ago, her attitude made me doubt she'd ever become a milker! However, we built a super strong stanchion in our cow barn, and it's made ALL the difference! She's a sweet heart in her stanchion, with her nose in her trough (a pile of regular hay, a slice of alfalfa, and a few scoops of beet pulp, supplemented with Thorvin Kelp, Redmond Conditioner, DE, Brewer's yeast and ACV). We're sharing milk with the calf, and really only milk on the weekends when we are there all day to be able to seperate them (I know, it's not ideal...but they both seem to be tolerating it just fine, and apparently AMDs are very flexible). She's giving us just under a gallon a day, so far...and I know she's holding up more. Once we are living out there, we can get a lot more serious about building her milk supply, etc. I understand that AMDs can give 3 gallons a day, and one guy told me that he didn't like his bull cuz he threw too much milk on his cows, up to 5 or 6 gallons a day. He felt it caused their bags to break down too fast, and took years off of their lives. He's the only one who's said that, though. Another AMD dairy up in Vermont is moving to Jerseys, covered by their AMD bull, because they want more production, but want to still do it on just grass.

Agmantoo...I hear you about being a grass farmer, first and foremost. My DH and I have just inherited these 40 acres from my parents, but we've worked alongside them, off and on, for years, until their health caused them to let things go. The land has been fallow for the past 7 years or more, and we are in the process of reclaiming it. My parents kept the place organic for their almost 30 years working the land, did some subdividing with the old style electric fencing, and insisted that manure and cut grass remain in the field to avoid nutrient leaching. They also seeded some rye/crimson clover on occasion. We're adding in the MiG bit, via portable fencing, and have been really impressed, so far! Even my BIL couldn't get over the change in the pastures after just one rotation! We're on mostly black clay, with bahia, little blue stem and various native grasses predominate. It's been interesting to see the paddocks that were early in the rotation last winter have sprouted various clovers, while the last couple of paddocks of stock piled forage (now bull paddocks) have none! I've also been impressed that the land has enough grass cover that it doesn't seem to pug as easily as I remember it used to do. We do have a 24X36' cow barn with corral that we've used to keep the cows off the pasture, when things have gotten a bit squashy. I'd like to get a hay barn built, similar to Joel Salatins, but I don't think we need to keep them off the land quite as much as he does, lacking Virginia's snows.

Wstevenl, we don't yet live on our property (soon, hopefully!), so our management style has had to be a bit less intensive than what would be optimum...and I want to emphasize that we're feeling our way into this MiG stuff, too! We have 40 acres, about half in pasture and about half in oak and pine woods. There's a spring fed creek bisecting the place, and a scattering of ponds, with all natural water fenced off from the cattle. We use long hoses and small portable water tanks. So far, we've run semi-permanent "trunk" lines length wise down our main 20-25 odd acre main pasture, and then used temporary lines to encircle paddocks of varying sizes. We started with 10 animals, mostly young heifers and bull calves, and they all went onto a paddock my son says was about 200' X 150' of what was essentially stock piled forage...which was actually the unmanaged pasture which had grown to about waist high, then set seed. We mowed the seed heads and stalks off to about 1 foot, finding lots of green underneath. When we turned the herd into the paddock, they acted like they didn't know what grass was, as they'd been in drought conditions. We threw them hay and they chowed down! We kept them in that paddock about a week, feeding hay daily in order for their rumens (and tastebuds) to adjust. When we moved them to the next paddock for a week, we fed less hay, and they ate the paddock down a bit better, and so on. It took them 4 paddocks, and about 4 weeks to eat down the top strip of our pasture along the ridge line. They gradually have worked their way down towards the creek through 4 more strips (5 strips for a total of 5 months) to gradually mow down our main pasture. The bulls have been seperated off and are in their own smaller pasture down along the edge of the woods, where they are finishing off the last of the old stemmy stuff. On Monday, the girls started their second rotation, back in the first paddock they were in when they first arrived (minus the 1 bull, 2 bull calves and 1 steer)...the photo I posted here. The difference between the grass there, and the old stuff in the bull's pasture is just amazing! I was expecting to have to move the girls through in just a few days, but as of Thursday, they've not yet finished the forage. Granted, there are fewer animals on that paddock (1 adult cow, 1 two month old heifer, and 5 yearling heifers), but they are bigger than when they arrived, and the grass is infinitely more tender and palatible (but then so are the poison ivy and bushes along the fence, which they've really been enjoying too! !). So...I don't yet know how big to make these Spring paddocks, nor how long to leave them on each. I don't want them to eat this new growth down nearly as hard as I let them eat the old stuff. I'm thinking that I'm going to have to make the paddocks MUCH smaller to encourage them to "cream" off the tips that are trying to set seed, and move them every other day. Having semi-permanent trunk lines already set does make the pasture moves much easier and faster for the kids and me! All the girls do line up and moo at you, a la Up North's lovely photo, when you run a new paddock, excited to make the move onto fresh grass!

So, how much land do you have for your 6 Dexters and what's it's condition? What plans do you have for fencing, water, etc.? We're new to this, too, but we're really encouraged, so far, and I hope I've encouraged you, as well. Good luck in this MiG experiment, and please do write back and let us know what you are doing, and how things are progressing?

[lonelyfarmgirl]

thanks for the response. now for some more specific info.
there are 25 cows (meat mutts), and 10 are due to have babies in the next 8 weeks.

the total grazing area is maybe 35 acres, but I'll say 30 to make it easy. the guy is using single strand electric wire, and that seems to hold them fine. he does have pasture for rotation, but I think he's rather slack about it.

in other words, they are of random size and he rotates when the grass is gone.
I think rotating everyday is probably best, but for convenience and sanity, rotating every 2nd or 3rd day is more realistic, like maybe 2x a week would be best.

the pastures, I believe, are a mix of red clover, orchard grass, and alfalfa. I know he hays some of it, 2 cuttings, but Im not sure how much.

so for fun, lets just say 30 acres, 40 cows. How do-able is this? If you have 70 cows, up-north, on 5 acres for a day, would 35-40 cows on 5 acres do good for 2 or 3 days? (assuming)

so how long does a pasture need to rest before being rotated onto again? I figured to follow each section with chickens, and somewhere there are goats to add to the mix.

suggestions? thanks

oh, he lives in east-central wisconsin, if it matters.

[CatherineE]

You are most welcome, lfgirl. I think the answer to your question is...it depends. Sorry to be so vague. Maybe others can give you a better guesstimate, but it depends on the pasture, the speed with which it's growing, the size and condition of the cows, and whether or not he is supplementing with grain or whatever. The speed of the rotation is much slower when the grass is growing slower, faster when the grass is really growing. In fact, the cows can get behind on the rotation, no matter how fast it is, and so haying off the extra is a great idea! The smaller the paddocks, and the more pressure you can put on the grass all at once makes the cows "eat the ice cream, AND the box it came in" as Joel Saladin likes to say. In other words, it makes them eat EVERYTHING, and not just what they like best. You get max usage of the forage. Some people even move the cows twice a day. I think it rather depends on your own situation and the time of year. I'm trying to feel out how big a herd our land can sustain, too. We had to have 9 cows and access to a bull in order to keep our Ag Tax Exemption, so that's where we began. We picked up another bull calf, and have recently had our cow calve our first heifer. What I'm expecting to see is that the carrying capacity of the land will improve as the fertility of the soil, and the variety of forage improves. I've heard that you can eventually even double your stocking rate...potentially. Oh...the resting period also varies by season, and forage variety. Obviously, in the winter, the warm season grasses aren't growing, so once that area is eaten down, you have to wait until it's growing strongly again...maybe months, depending on your weather. In the spring, 4-6 weeks might suffice. I'll let you know when we get there! lol. Overseeding cool season rye/crimson clovers can change your fall grazing speed, too, as you would now have a fast growing pasture in the "lean" time of the year. From our experience, you just have to get some cows on the place, and start playing with it, to determine what works for you, in your locale. Good luck, and do report back what you are seeing?

By the way...why are you refering to "the guy"? Do you have a renter who's running cattle on your place, or what? I do hope that's not your DH! lol.

[lonelyfarmgirl]

just a friend, his land, his cows, he is not a computer person, so I asked out of my own curiosity. I saw what he was doing, and mentally wanted to improve.

[agmantoo]

Barring a major drought I can make it happen 365 days per year with no baled hay. It took 5 years before the pastures started to produce at a noticeable increased rate. I continue to repeat the statement to never plow a pasture, the effort will set back the production. If you need to plant either no till or over seed. I vary the paddock size to met the needs of the cattle. I move them daily since I need to check on the cattle anyway. I am working with a dairy farmer and we have increased his number of paddocks from the original 15 (1 acre each) to where he now has the capacity for 45. These 1/3 acre paddocks are providing about 2 hours of grazing for up to a hundred dairy cows. In that time period they are not grazing the 1/3 acre to the ground. According to the farmer his milk output has picked up nearly 20% while reducing his need for purchased feed products. He is a happy convert!

[CatherineE]

That's SOO cool to know! How awesome that you can graze 365 days a year, barring major disasters! In our climate, we should be able to, as well. I really feel for the people up in Maine...where their cows can only be out of the barn on pasture 6 months of the year, and the first and last months have ice on the water troughs! Ick! I'm feeling a bit skittish, and want to store up plenty of hay this spring, after watching that bad drought in the SE this last year. I know everyone can be vulnerable, and having that hay in the barn would feel like an insurance policy. I totally agree with you about no till...even in the veggie garden, I'm about to be convinced! It's also wonderful to hear the results that your dairy friend is having! Is he graining at all, or is he 100% grass? Thanks...and post details when you can?!

[Up North]

lonelyfarmgirl-E Central WI is a great place to use MIG. Normal conditions include good rainfall, moderate to cool temps with cooldowns at night producing dew, and fairly good to great soil, location depending. A few thoughts: Totally disregard information on "warm season grasses" that folks south of the northern tier states discuss. Species like Bermudagrass, Bahia, Bluestem are not an option for your friend in WI. The mix he has now is very good for that part of the world.
Your idea of chickens following cows is a strong one, we are on the springboard to put an eggmobile in place to do that very thing. On the Goats...well...First remember the rule of goat fencing an old timer here recently told me...If you throw a bucket of water at the fence and any water goes thru it, a goat can too! An exxageration for humor but it does make a point. What we found with goats is that they want to eat brush and browse, not lush leguminous pasture. When the brush runs out, so do the goats.
My point is it takes a goat fence to hold them in, a cow fence will usually not suffice.
The carrying capacity of land can be improved over time using mig coupled with clever management. The breeds and gentetics within breeds also play a role. Some do better than others.

[Up North]

Agman - Your information reflects a prudent employment of compensatory gain.

[Up North]

Catherine - Your photo of the Devons grazing is beautiful. I think you are on the right track based on what you have shared.
As to the frequency of paddock shift issue: Nothing is set in stone. One has to perhaps think about what the objective is for rotational grazing. For one party, it may be to maximize profit of an agricultural business. This is where the once a day or multiple times a day paddock shifts are usually employed.
A strange concept I know, but for some folks maximizing profit is not the primary reason for rotational grazing. Some do it as a way to create an ecologically sound and pleasing agricultural landscape. It is pleasing for them to look upon, and that's reason enough. Some do it because, well, they will come right out and tell you " I'm Lazy!...I don't want to spend my days carting feed to and manure away from a cow." Some do it to create wildlife compatible farmland.
I try to keep an open outlook and respect that whether folks rotate every 3 hours or every 3 days they have probably worked out what works for them in the balance of life.

We are not a zero grain, all grass dairy. However,if we were to pursue that the dairy breeds we would use would include the Ayrshire, The Normandy, The Milking Shorthorn, and possibly some Jersey crosses with the above three breeds. The Randall and the Milking Devon would work fine I suppose, my concern would be the scarcity of available replacement stock, breeding bulls, and AI availability.

Catherine you may find this site illuminating:http://www.nicholsdairy.com/index.html

[lonelyfarmgirl]

has anyone used birdsfoot trefoil? ive heard about it, but havent ran across anyone that uses it. I know goats like it, and Ive read a few magazine articles that say cows like it.

I told my friend that an electric fence wire would not suffice for goats, but aside from that, he told me his cows hate the alfafla, and tend to skip over it. I had a thought that maybe goats would make up the difference there, since they love and need alfalfa (dairy goats). maybe sheep instead?

he told me yesterday that he lets them graze it down to nothing to force them to eat the alfalfa, and I told him that probably wasnt good, He had no idea.

[Up North]

lfg - When we dairied in WI (just a few hours north of your friend) we used Birdsfoot Trefoil. The advantages include: Non-bloating, spreads and reseeds itself over time, and depending on soil ph it can be economically advantageous over alfalfa. With no soil amendments, Trefoil will thrive on soils that would require liming to grow alfalfa. Cows love it - but only after they have been eating it two weeks or more. An acquired taste it seems.
Disadvantages: Horses do not like it, and usually will only eat it in the dry, baled hay form. Trefoil can grow quite thick and heavy, and is harder to get a windrow dry for baling hay than alfalfa. Trefoil is slower to get established and may not yield well the first year. So for best results we would plant Trefoil along with Red Clover. The Red Clover will produce heavily the first two years and then fade away as the Trefoil takes over and starts producing heavily. Once a Trefoil stand is well established, it can remain productive for many years without additional fieldwork.
For grazing or combination grazing/haymaking, we preferred the Empire variety of Trefoil. For strictly hayfields, the Viking variety produced an upright plant more akin to alfalfa that was more manageable for drying and baling.