Setting up for milking

**Ross** · #1 04/11/08, 11:08 AM

I plan to get a dairy cow for the start of May. Jersey hopefully or a Holstein. Lots of work ahead. I have the machinery Surge Alamo vac pump, Sentinal controller, Surge electric pulsation 24v I think (the board was state of the art 5 years ago and has multi selections ratios and PPM for every critter that makes milk ) surge pulsators with dual outlets a Surge mini cup milker with new inflations and lines and an Alfa Laval bucket. So I need to know with pulsation I should set and ratio and can I set the rear differently from the front (ratio) or is side to side better at 50/50?? 15" mercury? Any comments appreciated. Thanks (PS I've already heard my Alfa Laval bucket is incompatable with my Surge equipment and I'm not buying a new Surge bucket so everything matches

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Jay · #2 04/11/08, 04:01 PM

Too confusing for me.
Learn to handmilk???!!!!!

SandraD · #3 04/11/08, 04:19 PM

I think you'll find it's way to much work to use a machine to milk 1 cow, you will spend more time setting up and then cleaning your equipment than is reasonable. You can learn to hand milk and be done in about 15 minutes once you are used to it. I have 1 Jersey and hand milk but have also used and cleaned equipment....I'll take the hand milking!

**Ross** · #4 04/11/08, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Learn to handmilk???!!!!!

I know how to hand milk but carpal/arthritis/gout joints means the machine is doing the work. Those who kow what I'm asking will know when they read! It'll be interesting to read thier reply I'm sure.

**Ross** · #5 04/11/08, 04:25 PM

Besides the thousands on the tech I've spent already can milk the cow even if it takes longer!! I had a sheep milking parlour built and ready not so long ago if the buyers could have come through reliably

Up North · #6 04/11/08, 06:53 PM

Ross - Well that was a surprising run of responses,LOL!
Anyways, I think 15" is too high for running one bucket milker. My best estimate would be about 13.6 on the gauge. You want it around 12.9 to 13.3 at the claw itself so you allow for some loss between pump, gauge, and bucket milker. 15" would be for a 6 or 8 unit setup where the loss brings it down into the range mentioned.
I assume you have two-stage pulsators? If so, 50-50 is not optimum, though it will milk cows. I will look at my pulsators tonight, but I believe 60-40 is preferred.
Are your pulsators adjustable as far as speed? Our pneumatic pulsators can be adjusted with an allen wrench, and should be periodically checked. Ours are set at 58-60 clicks per minute.

I think I have you in the right church, but I may not be in exactly the right pew for your setup. Recommend you consult sammyd, as he is knowledgable in these matters.

How many HP is your Surge Alamo Vacuum pump?

DaleK · #7 04/11/08, 07:14 PM

Trade you my Surge pail Ross, everything else is DeLaval. Although it sounds like your Surge stuff might be newer than mine.

At last check our pulsators were all running about 58:42, side to side. Most fore udders will milk out a bit easier so side-side tends to work a bit more evenly. How long is your pipeline? I think 13.5-14 would be the right area but I'm not really up on that. Ours runs about 15.2 but that's with 4-5 units on 310' of line.

Go get 'er Ross. We just bought another one Tuesday, older grade Holstein, due any day now. Not real fancy but not a dog, $490.

**Ross** · #8 04/11/08, 07:15 PM

The control board has multiple switches to set ratio and speed it is pretty hi tech and meant for a parlour or tie stall set up. Cost me close to a grand when new 5 years ago. Thanks for the vacuum the last time I had anything to do with machine milking cows was almost 30 years ago when I was in high school milking 60 head for a neighbor. I'm pretty sure I can set the rear milkers to 60 40 and the front to 55 45 if its worth the trouble trying to milk out evenly.

**Ross** · #9 04/11/08, 07:22 PM

Running straight to the bucket Dale (but I have SS line and a reciever jar/milkpump/filtre in storage) No bulk tank. Side to side is an option never gave it much thought. Now I'm depressed I'm not hearing anything cheaper than $1000 for an ify cow. I'm thinking I may not be asking the right folks. Same crew would probably give me $60 for a lamb. Got any leads Dale you're not that far away!

**Ross** · #10 04/11/08, 07:35 PM

Oops forgot pretty sure the Alamo spins off a 3hp motor. 220v for sure

DaleK · #11 04/11/08, 07:50 PM

Ross try calling London Dairy, believe it or not. Their ad's in Ontario Farmer. They have somebody in Hawkesbury raising heifers for them, they tried sending us a couple of cheap springers that weren't calving at the right times to fill out a potload for them but we couldn't get connected for trucking. They did trade us 15 fresh cows for 11 open heifers though, think I mentioned already. I know they're buying herds in the East right down into PEI and NB every week.
Top springer at the auction here this week was $1050, she was a really nice one.

sammyd · #12 04/11/08, 10:42 PM

The ratio is not side to side or front to rear.
The ratio refers to the amount of time milking and resting.
The first number is time milking the second is time resting.
Higher first number = faster milkout.
If you are running up to 4 units yourself 60/40 is great.
If you have like 6 units 55/45 is good.
If you are using auto takeoffs and your system allows 70/30 works fine.
Some of the snazzier auto take offs will shift ratios according to milk flow)
60 pulses per minute is about right.
(some of the snazzier auto takeoffs have variable ppms for stimulation before the milk flow hits a certain level but with good prep routine I've found this to be not a big thing to have)
I have never seen a system that allows different ratios for front and rear. And I wouldn't know why you would need one. A cow will learn to milk out if the milking routine is setup and followed properly everytime you milk.
As for vacuum level 15 is probably high. It's a good number if you have a large system and lots of units. For just one bucket I'd take it to 13 and see how the claw holds on. Take it lower if the unit doesn't slip when the cow is milking. I would set up pipelines and parlors to run 9" of vacuum at the teat ends while milking. You lose aprox 1" of vacuum for every foot you have to lift the milk to get to the pipeline.

Side to side or front to back is usually set by your claw although you can get converter kits to switch.
I was a Universal guy and we ran side to side as a rule. I've switched a few old BouMatic guys from front to back to side to side even though they swore up and down it wouldn't work.

Up North · #13 04/11/08, 11:00 PM

Ross, I checked, our pulsators are 60/40. The big long pipelines like Dale has is where you need the 15" of vacuum. A short loop of vacuum pipe should be all you want. Bigger diameter(like 3" PVC) is better because the extra volume acts like a reserve tank.
Too bad you are so far away. I use a SS Surge bucket to carry milk to the hogs :1pig:...LOL.

**Ross** · #14 04/12/08, 05:45 AM

Thanks I do know what the ratio is and I know it isn't common but the pulsation controler I have was (might still be) the best Surge made. As I orginally was setting up to milk sheep, I needed a higher PPM and a very adjustable ratio so we could tweek things to suit a non-traditional breed to milking. I was told the board I put in (and the owners manual backs it up) can provide milking ratios and PPM to suit any animal. I'd never heard of different ratios front to back either not even sure my unit will do it and I guess you'd need two pulsators wired seperately off the controller.

Too fancy for my needs I'm sure but what the heck if I didn't need to buy anything and it helped the cow I thought I'd ask. (Knowing there are dairy farmers here)
Second paragraph in this link describes the ratio difference front to back for a Milka Ware system.
http://www.milka-ware.com.au/shoppin...4C5D510A080507

Quote:

An option of the Milka-Ware 4000 is the ability to provide a slower milking ratio to the front quarters than to the rear quarters which hold more milk and take longer to milk out. This option will assist extracting the milk from the whole udder at a more even rate than if it was milked using the same ratio for all quarters.

DaleK · #15 04/12/08, 10:05 AM

Ross you should be able to find a good 3/4 cow for $3-400 that'll do you for a few years, they're REALLY cheap now that Gencor went belly-up.

Up North · #16 04/12/08, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Oops forgot pretty sure the Alamo spins off a 3hp motor. 220v for sure

Ross just a few pointers on the Alamo Vac pump, if you have not all ready checked it over.
First, there is an upright round steel container which holds a filter(12" to 13" in dia.) and a perforated steel disc. Peel the heavy rubber ring away to split the container and then examine filter, clean steel perforated disc and inner compartment. The foam filter can be washed with warm dishsoap water and reinstalled if it is serviceable.
Second, where the exhaust exits the pump you will find usually a galvanized pipe or threads to install one. It may seem large in diameter and thus one might be tempted to use reducers to run a smaller diameter exhaust pipe thru a wall to outside. I did this

and it was a costly mistake. Any restriction from the factory exhaust exit diameter may lead to overheating and disintegration.
Third, examine the connection between the electric motor and the pump body itself. Disassemble the covering/clamp that holds the "flex coupler" intact. The flexcoupler is a hard rubber with sprocket teeth on it's inner circumference. Remove flexcoupler and examine for any weaknesses or cracks. If in any doubt as to it's structural integrity, order a new one and have it on hand.
And of course, check the oiling dripper needles to make sure they are not clogged with sludge and are dripping along steady.

These specific points on the Alamo Vac Pump are usually what leads to downtime. Apologize if too much info, as I know you are adept with these mechanical things.

Sorry the Sheep Dairy didn't pan out.

**Ross** · #17 04/12/08, 10:43 AM

It was checked out 5 years ago and has sat unused or the time. So yeah it needs a going over now!! Thanks for the tips

**Ross** · #18 04/12/08, 10:45 AM

I have a 3/4 Jersey maybe available but until I have a few more things lined up (like servicing the vac pump) I could feed lambs with the milk ASAP

sammyd · #19 04/13/08, 06:10 AM

Well the different ratios could be done if your pulsation wiring was color coded and you made sure that you hooked the right hoses to the right pulsator outlets and claw inlets every time.
IE- your wiring was green black red, red for rear green for common black for front
clear pulsator hose from the side with the red wire to the claw inlet for the rear and pulsator hose with a stripe to the side with the black wire to the front.

Must be quite a board. I've seen Surges that would let me change ratios but that's as far as I've seen.

**Ross** · #20 04/13/08, 07:36 AM

It has three wires........ but I thought that would be normal for the pulsators I have. I tok some pictures I'll try to upload this afternoon. I need to find the owners manal for the board to set it up for cows. I'll probably get the Surge dealer to set it up and test it come to think about it. Lots of little switches in there!