Polled vs horned

darbyfamily · #1 04/01/08, 10:06 PM

If you breed a horned cow with a polled bull, will you get a polled calf?

Spring was dehorned as a calf... Autumn is horned... but we'd really rather not deal with horns. SO... if we go with a polled bull, will we get a polled calf?

And is it too late to do anything about Autumns horns now? they're about an inch long and still blunt, but she did head butt me the other day in the arm and I have a bruise from it... no big deal, but she's going to get bigger, stronger and the horns will get longer!

ebook · #2 04/01/08, 10:39 PM

The answer to your question is ... maybe ... it partially depends on whether or not the bull is homozygous polled or heterozygous and then on probability.

Please someone come in again and explain on this Punnet Square stuff to me again! I knew I should have listened better in biology!

gracie88 · #3 04/01/08, 11:18 PM

I'd draw you a square, but my pencil doesn't work in here

The way I understand it, the polled gene is dominant. If the bull is homozygous for polled, then the calf will be polled. If the bull is heterozygous (one polled gene, one horned gene) then your chances are 50-50.

MTplainsman · #4 04/01/08, 11:29 PM

The answer to your question is ... maybe ... it partially depends on whether or not the bull is homozygous polled or heterozygous and then on probability.

Thats would I'd say also, but I'm not 100% on that. When I've used Horned Hereford on pure blood Angus and Red Angus, I almost never get horns. Though if there is impurities somewhere in thier blood line, such as 1B types, you may or may not get horns. Sometimes if you do though, they usually don't amount to much.

NO, it is not to late to take care of inch long horns. I don't have much experience with caustic ointment, so I can't suggest that. I do know that you can take care of them with a hot iron. Gougers can also be used, but some people don't care to go through that experience, escpecially if you get a bad bleeder... it's not for the faint of heart. The hot iron is the best way I know to rid your self of horns up to a fairly late age in a calf. If you have an electric branding iron, you can use that. Use a bend in the iron or a curve for best contact. Encircle the entire base of the horn firmly until well charred and grooved. If you do it right, you can actually knock the horns off with one hit of the hand. This will take care of the horn problem throughout it's lifetime.

darbyfamily · #5 04/02/08, 07:29 AM

we're thinking we may not end up keeping her though.. would it be better to leave the horns on her? She doesnt have much of a genetic line for milking so if Spring has a heifer calf on her first calving with us, we may sell Autumn and keep the new baby. Especially since we're planning to AI Spring with a good milking line bull.

ebook · #6 04/02/08, 08:28 AM

I think you will hear from both sides on whether or not your heifer calf should be dehorned. Many feel that at this stage of the game it is pretty cruel and can make them wary of people the rest of their lives. Others will tell you that it is just part of the deal and that if you really want to you can have them put to sleep and have them surgically removed.

As for me, I would just leave them on. Of course I like horns on Dexters, so that may be clouding my judgement. You may have to find the right buyer, but I think it won't be too much of a turn-off for most people.

~Tomboy~ · #7 04/02/08, 03:57 PM

Hi Darby family,

I love reading about all you new experiences, so keep it up.

There are very, very, very few homozygous polled Dexters bulls out there. Homozygous means the bull carriers 2 genes for polled, any horned cows you breed him to will (the calves) automatically be polled. All calves produced from this will be heterozygous polled.

Heterozygous polled means the bull only carriers one gene for polled. So when breeding a hetero polled bull to a horned cow, your chances are 50% polled, 50% horned offspring.

Sorry I can't be of any help to you on dehorning, all I know is it was something I didn't want to do. My own comfort level is with no horns. I luckily have a homozygous polled bull.

darbyfamily · #8 04/02/08, 04:41 PM

SOOOOO Barbara

Tiny... is a polled bull!

have you had him collected? LOL wish you were closer.. I'd love to add more color to my black cows

darbyfamily · #9 04/02/08, 04:45 PM

what does 'genetically polled' mean?

Tilly · #10 04/02/08, 04:49 PM

I agonized over wether or not to dehorn my dexter heifer, and am very glad now that we did. Our vet was awesome, he gave her a shot that made her loopy and tired, then when she laid down, he was done in about 5 minutes, maybe less. She had 4 inch horns, and was a bit over a year old when we had her done, she has never been scared of us since we had it done, but the vet insisted that we stay out of her eyesight until the loopy drug took affect.

As for AI, check out kheartdexters. We are purchasing their milk cow Sweetie, hopefully bred to their gorgeous bull, homozygous polled and red............

Tilly

~Tomboy~ · #11 04/02/08, 04:49 PM

Tiny has not been collected yet, I have several people asking for his semen, it's just getting my rear in gear and getting it done.

~Tomboy~ · #12 04/02/08, 05:22 PM

Darby family,

I think the reason some people use the term "genetically polled" is because it clarifies what they are and that they carry a gene for polled. You still need to find out whether they are homo polled, or hetero polled.

Some folks not knowing any better think that if an animal has been dehorned it can be called polled, this of course is incorrect.

darbyfamily · #13 04/02/08, 05:30 PM

Spring is not polled, but she must have been dehorned fairly young as I cant see any hint of where horns would have been on her.

I mistakenly thought she was polled and that the horns must have come from the bulls side...

Dexter cows are beautiful with their horns... I just see the way she swings her head around and butts at us, and I figure if she keeps doing that as she gets bigger and the horns longer, shes going to jab me in the rearend one of these days...

ebook · #14 04/02/08, 08:47 PM

Dan Butterfield has a list of Dexter semen for sale. I scrolled through it really quick and found one homozygous polled bull, Hillview Red Wing.

You can check out the For Sale List to see if there is something you like. AI'ing can be pricey, and even more pricey for a homozygous polled red bull. But, I don't really know.

DJ in WA · #15 04/02/08, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Dexter cows are beautiful with their horns... I just see the way she swings her head around and butts at us, and I figure if she keeps doing that as she gets bigger and the horns longer, shes going to jab me in the rearend one of these days...

Don't know if anyone's mentioned to you that you need to put an end to this behavior right now or someone's going to get hurt - hopefully not children. If calves think they can play with you, they won't have the necessary respect, and someday you'll be sorry. You've got to be tough and swat them a good one when the butting starts.

Tiffin · #16 04/06/08, 05:52 AM

We tried Hillview Red Wing straws (2), unfortunately our heifer didn't take. We regret trying such expensive semen for her first time breeding. She is now bred with much cheaper semen but not homozygous polled. The heifer is due in May so it will be interesting to see what she has after being bred to a heterozygous polled red bull.

We have a vet dehorn calves at 1 to 2 months old. It is easy and the calves are not traumatized by it at all.