Ovarian cysts

[Tilly]

We are going up on saturday to look at Sweetie, the 8yo Dexter that we have been planning to purchase. She seems to be having some trouble getting bred back. Her owner has had the vet out, and has diagnosed her with ovarian cysts. Of course,I've been all over the internet looking up treatments. It seems to be treatable with a hormone therapy. I'm pretty sure we are going to go ahead and get her, since I've read about the cysts resolving on their own after a few months, or even quicker with the therapy, but wanted to see if anyone else had experience with this condition. Any info would be appriciated, as always......

Tilly

[Lane Linnenkohl]

We have a dexter cow that was diagnosed with ovarian cysts. We have not done anything to treat it as we stay away from hormones and the like. We've had one calf from her, and she was late to breed back last spring. She was late to settle on the first calf. We'll have her pregnancy checked this spring and if she's not pregnant, she'll go in the freezer.

Why would you want to invest in a cow if it has known problems? Your choice of course, but it's not like dexter heifers are so hard to find.

[Tilly]

Sweetie is a tried and true milk cow that just fits our family perfectly. We currently have a 15 mo dexter heifer that we are going to breed in june, and we are getting rid of her mother and little brother due to extreme aggression on the cow's part. We have four children who are very involved with our animals, and all animals we have must be gentle, our heifer for example comes into our yard when my kids are outside playing. Sweetie is of similar personality, which is more important to us than anything ( ok, milk production is a very close second!!!) We don't have problems with treating using hormones, she has had calves before with no problems.

[matt_man]

Our vet had suggested to us when making a similar decision about a cow we had to cull her. We were not able to breed her and she was cystic. We had used lutelyse on her twice and she would come into heat but still not breed. He said that we could do all the synching hormones, etc... but she would most likely have trouble breeding back every year and it would be a hassle.

Rachel

[copperhead46]

I wouldn't buy a cow with know medical problems, even if you get her bred back, she will not be regular, you will have more time feeding a dry cow and she will more than likely get farther and farther between calves, making her more of a liability to your bottom line. Remember, she is only a milk cow, if she has a calf........P.J.

[Tad]

We have 70 milkers we have had MANY cystic cows over the years. Ususally a dose of hormones and she is good to go. Depends what kind the have lutilial (sp) cysts were the CL just won't go away or follicular cysts were the folicale grows and then never pops to release the egg. The vet always used to pop those manually but now the say hormones are better so there is no chance of injury. We probably ov-sync 30%-40% of our cows. I figure three hormone shots is better than one between the eyes! We have cows we breed 3 or 4 times one year so we start breeding sooner the next time and then they stick first service and only milk 290 days! We average a 1.7 services per conception rate. My college proffeser ov-synced all his heifers, he just raised 20 or so replacements for some extra income. He had a 92% conception rate at the time I was at school.

[Tilly]

Thanks for the responses everyone! Finally got a call back from my vet, not the one who is treating Sweetie, that in his opinion not to give up on breeding her. He said to continue with the treatments she is on, leave her with the bull for a couple more months, then preg check again. But, not to buy until confirmed preg. He also said that this is not a recurring problem, once preg is established, future breedings are usually not a problem. So, now we wait..

Tilly

[Up North]

Given cow's age and reproductive history, I would not buy her unless you desire a freezer full of ground beef.

[francismilker]

Depending on the value of a replacement milk cow and the dexter price market, your vet could be recommending some "million dollar" treatments for a "hundred dollar" animal. The dexter breed is becoming more popular all the time and it shouldn't be difficult to locate another.

[dosthouhavemilk]

We have a cow who will be 6 in May.
She was cystic as a heifer. We had only AIed her once because she was a bear to get up to the barn and caught for breeding.
When preg-checked she had a cyst or two. The vet ruptured those while palpating her. She ended up running with our herd bull for close to 8 months. He settled her right before he was loaded up and shipped. She delivered a bull calf on Christmas Eve in 2005 (that steer was just butchered). She settled back first service AI (with me breeding even and I have a terrible conception rate). Delivered another bull calf in January of 2007 I believe it was. May have been December of 2006.
This last year she went cystic on us, yet again. Cycling every week. Seemingly in constant standing heat. Her production suffered big time. As a first calf heifer she had put 80 pounds of milk in the bucket.
I AIed her a couple of time, but in August the stray bull showed up and he was breeding her fairly constantly.
We had the herd preg checked in October. She was still cystic and so she was given a series of Ovi-Cyst and Lutalyse. She showed a solid heat a week or so later (and had stopped over cycling at that point) and we haven't seen signs of heat since. She should be four months bred at this point. We haven't had them preg checked yet.

So she was a case where she was a cystic heifer, fine the next lactation and then went cystic on us again. It isn't always a one time thing.

[willow_girl]

We have a dexter cow that was diagnosed with ovarian cysts. We have not done anything to treat it as we stay away from hormones and the like. We've had one calf from her, and she was late to breed back last spring. She was late to settle on the first calf. We'll have her pregnancy checked this spring and if she's not pregnant, she'll go in the freezer.

Now, that is just a darned shame, to put down a good cow for want of a simple injection!

Sorry, but reading that just makes me really mad.

Your lack of knowledge and reluctance to learn good management techniques likely will cost this cow her life.

One of my cows was culled from a dairy for not breeding back, turns out she was cystic. Gave her a shot of Lutalyse, set her up (Ovsynch protocol), AI'ed one time, and she conceived.

Another thing to consider: if a cystic cow is in a herd, it's hard on her because she appears to be in heat virtually all the time ... the other cows are constantly riding her, or she's riding them. There is a greater chance of her becoming injured this way.

Do the cow a favor ... give her a shot already!!!

[Lane Linnenkohl]

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Now, that is just a darned shame, to put down a good cow for want of a simple injection!

Sorry, but reading that just makes me really mad.

Your lack of knowledge and reluctance to learn good management techniques likely will cost this cow her life.

One of my cows was culled from a dairy for not breeding back, turns out she was cystic. Gave her a shot of Lutalyse, set her up (Ovsynch protocol), AI'ed one time, and she conceived.

Another thing to consider: if a cystic cow is in a herd, it's hard on her because she appears to be in heat virtually all the time ... the other cows are constantly riding her, or she's riding them. There is a greater chance of her becoming injured this way.

Do the cow a favor ... give her a shot already!!!

First off, I count 5 other posts that give basically the same advice I did. Interesting that you single me out.

This cow does not go into continual heat cycles. Other cows are not constantly mounting her. She seems to have regular cycles, but does not conceive. She's 5 years old this spring and has given us one calf.

You accuse me of a lack of knowledge and an unwillingness to learn good management techniques. We raise essentially organic grass fed beef. We use intensive pasture rotations, moving cows to new grass every day during the growing season. We move our cows around in the winter as well. This keeps parasite loads down. We breed for cows that conceive and reproduce without assistance. Cows that grow efficiently and maintain weight without grain. Cows that are naturally resistant to parasites and don't need routine antibiotics. Cows that don't meet these standards get culled. You may call this ignorance, I call it improving the breed. Cows that need assistance produce more cows that need assistance. This weakens the breed, weakens the species as a whole.

I'm sorry that reading my post upsets you, but we obviously have a difference in philosophy on how to raise and breed livestock. I hope that explaining my philosophy has at least put to bed the idea that I am unknowledgeable or that I refuse to learn. I just approach this differently than you do.

[DJ in WA]

I'm with DryBranch on this.

Seems some are so attached to their cows they create strains that can't live without a vet. Just like some dog breeders.

Short term thinking - supposedly saving a cow, while creating more problems down the road.

We currently have a 15 mo dexter heifer that we are going to breed in june, and we are getting rid of her mother and little brother due to extreme aggression on the cow's part.

Tilly, are you sure you want to keep a heifer whose mother has extreme aggression? Same issue of genetics. You are getting rid of the little brother but not the daughter?

Most serious producers look for reasons to cull animals, and they only keep replacements from the best parents. That's one problem with breeds kept by us small-timers, is we don't select for the best, and quality suffers.

I plan to butcher a little heifer this fall, as she is too nervous and flighty. Sure, I could probably get over $1000 for her as she's a miniature, but I wouldn't want to pass those genes on.

[copperhead46]

I'm with you Dry branch, if she was a "good cow" she would be earning her keep. You've kept her a lot longer than I would have, 5 years and 1 calf just doesn't cut it. I butchered one last year, she would have a calf, just didn't give any milk, so she went into the freezer. Thats why we raise them, they have to produce and earn their keep.
P.J.

[randiliana]

Some very good posts on here. I just shake my head a lot of times when I read stuff on here. But, then, I am not in the business for pets. We run a commercial operation. Here a cow has to get bred within 60 days. If she doesn't, sorry, but it is a one way trip for her. 1 calf every 365 days is our goal. Either she does it, or she doesn't. If she doesn't, she does not get any more chances to pass on her genes. These things have a tendancy to run in families.

Temprament is a biggie here too, and I won't keep a heifer out of a cow that has a bad one. For that matter we don't keep the cow with the bad attitude either. It is a genetic thing too, and the calf watches what mama does.

Here is a good reason not to keep anything with an attitude. A couple days ago an older lady was killed while out checking cows, with her husband during the night. She was ahead of him, and a cow got her. Took the tractor to get the cow off her. So, keep that in mind when you are thinking of replacing a bad temprament cow with her heifer.

There is a saying, breed the best to the best, and hope for the best. Why bother keeping animals around that have serious problems? Fertility is the #1 most important trait you can have in a cow. Without fertility, you don't have a calf, you don't have milk, and nothing else matters. IMO temprament should be awfully close to #1 on the list, cause if you get killed by the cow, what does it really matter, how good of a cow she is?? Ever here "she put me up the fence last year, but I just can't get rid of her, she raised a 700 lb calf".

[Lane Linnenkohl]

Originally Posted by copperhead46

... You've kept her a lot longer than I would have, 5 years and 1 calf just doesn't cut it...
P.J.

I agree, I have kept her too long. The reason being, she's as close to my view conformationally of the prototypical dexter cow that I've seen in person in quite a while. She's calm, can be milked, does well on grass and hay, never needs doctoring, her bull calf (now a steer) has all her qualities. I was hoping she'd work through the conceiving problems.

Anyway, if she's not pregnant in the spring, she's beef. If she is pregnant, she'll be allowed to have and wean the calf then she'll be beef. Her calf, bull or heifer, will be raised for beef.

[dosthouhavemilk]

One also needs to keep in mind the differences in what various farmers are after.
While our cow has only produced two calves since 12/24/05...she has put 43,000+ pounds of milk in the tank in that same time and is still giving 33 pounds of milk a day at 424 days fresh.
Since reproductive issues such as cysts are so rare in this herd, we will keep a daughter out of her I am sure. Assuming she ever blesses us with one out of a Jersey bull....lol
A beef cow being carried open is not earning her keep. A dairy cow who may be open a touch longer for whatever reason still is earning her keep as long as she produces enough milk to offset costs.

Besides, with my AI skills, it is hard to place full blame on the cow. Our vet always noted how good the reproductive health of our herd was (before he passed). Our new vet has only been out for a preg check once so we shall see.


The school was selling a first calf heifer who was pushing three. She hadn't taken to AI three times. Since AI was how the milking herd settled it meant she needed to go. I knew the problem. She had long heat cycles. Meant most of the time the timing was off. We had a cow like that. 11 AIs to settle but run her with a bull and she took first time around. I found the cow a home with someone who has a bull. We brought her here ran her with our herd bull and she went home to Kansas pregnant. Settled on her first heat. Delivered a heifer and has delivered a calf yearly the next two years because she was bred by bulls and not AI.
Our cow had twin daughters out of the herd bull. Those heifers settled first service and settled 1st or 2nd service their second year. We sold them for dairy that year so I don't know how they have done since.

I know with the goats, which are run more like a meat operation, I am not quite as lenient, but still somewhat. Half the time, if they weren't exposed to a buck for a full cycle how can I blame them for not getting pregnant? If they weren't exposed in heat then thay can't get pregnant.

[Tilly]

We are keeping the heifer and not the little steer or mamma because of the mamma's aggression, she has been a 'feral' cow for the last ten years, only coming in to get fed, running with a large herd the rest of the time. Other heifers from her have been very friendly and easy to handle once they were removed from mamma, and the bull ( my heifer's sire) is a downright kitten. We are also getting rid of the little bull calf because we just want to focus on our milking cows right now, not raising beef.

Update on Sweetie: after one shot, her cysts are gone and the vet pronounced her ready to breed, this cow has had no other problems with cysts/calving over her entire breeding time. Six calves to date.

I really do appreciate all of the advice, that's why I come here, even if I don't take the advice given it helps me to think of other things I may have missed. Thanks again, everyone!!!!!

Tilly

[randiliana]

Glad things are working out for you. Good luck.