LGD for cattle??

wendle · #1 02/11/08, 06:41 AM

A nearby farmer has lost a cow and a few calves to coyotes, and is looking into a LGD. Do they bond with cows like other livestock? Has anybody tried this? The owner of the farm is in the hospital, so the daugher and son are taking care of the cows. Nobody lives at the house, so the dog will have to be bonded to the cows. Not sure if this will work as last time I had cows they were aggressive towards the lgds. Has anybody tried these dogs with cows only?

BlueHeronFarm · #2 02/11/08, 06:53 AM

Around here, people use donkeys with their cattle.

We were boarding a few longhorns. They were not happy about our LGD at the beginning, but by the time they left (just left after 8 months) the dog could go out in their field with no cow-stress.

I'm not sure, however, if the dogs will bond with the cows like they do with goats and sheep.

...Around here you can always find cheap donkeys on craigslist, too.

collegeboundgal · #3 02/11/08, 07:54 AM

what kind of coyote brings down a full-grown, healthy cow?! calves I can see, (where's their mother?) but a grown cow? sounds like they need to hold a midnight hunt. find a turkey barn near you and get a few of the dead ones (they ALWAYS have dead ones) through them out in the middle of a good sized field. wait down wind of the carcasses with spot lights and guns till you hear them feeding. Then turn on your lights and take aim. the more folks their are, the more coyotes you'll hit. I don't recommend poison as it doesn’t care what it kills, but a spot light hunt will work.

-Melissa

jerzeygurl · #4 02/11/08, 08:00 AM

our lgd dogs have bonded with calves, but they are puppies.

our black lab made friends with a few of the cows and the llama, the other cows wouldnt have anything to do with him.

wendle · #5 02/11/08, 09:29 AM

We are thinking it's a large pack, and since there have been cougars seen within 20 miles we aren't ruling them out either. I think they will need two good lgds. They have seen coyotes during the day hanging around the farm, even in the buildings. We've located some Pyrs for sale originally off this board, I was just checking for my friend to see how well they should work with the cows in their operation.

jerzeygurl · #6 02/11/08, 09:53 AM

there IS the high likely hood that the cows will see the dogs as coyotes and will go after them....

donkeys work well with coyotes and large dogs( which all go in packs)

donkeys dont do so well against small dogs for some reason, I suppose the speed in which the little things change direction...

Teacupliz · #7 02/11/08, 11:40 AM

I have a year old GP/Marememm dog, He started out with the goats only but now goes in with the goes. He like to play with the cows and horses. THis dog was born in pasture with goats but has adapted to all critters very well. He is worht his weight in gold. He kiled a huge fox and raccoon. I would recommend getting more then one with your problem and make sure you get one that is born in a barn- My dog was pretty good at his job by 6 months of age.

Liz

JR05 · #8 02/12/08, 07:15 AM

I have llamas with the cows. They are the best as they don't need extra or different feeding. Mine will take out anything with four leggs that doesn't belong. Regretfully they don't do anything to humans that theive! 2-3 wethered males work the best as they take turns watching and sleeping. If you do have a cougar problem several llamas can handle that too. We had a coyote problem here, they would sit at the yard fence and just watch us and tease the dogs, since we got the llamas we hear them at the neighbors but son't see them on our property. Also with your neighbor in the hospital they wouldn't have to come out and feed them like you would a dog or dogs.

jr05

MayLOC · #9 02/12/08, 10:04 AM

How many cows are you talking about and how large of an area? Are they in different pastures or a small group in one pasture?

JR05 may have offered a much more instant solution to the problem with the mention of Llamas. Though I have NO experience with them.

I will say that LGDs will bond with and guard whatever they are raised with. But I will venture to say that you will not be able to just purchase a dog and toss it into a pasture and expect it to stay and guard (not saying your neighbors would, just stating this)

We got a 6 mo. old pyr/anat./akbash 2 yrs. back and it was raised with goats and horses. We put it in with our goats. however we had a baby bottle calf in with the goats also and this dog became very very attatched to the calf. The calf got bigger and we turned it out to the pasture with another bottle calf and there were also cows in this pasture at the time. The calves would come up to the house morning and night for their bottles and then graze out in the daytime away from the house. The LGD would stick to them like glue. The farthest away the calves would get was probably a mile from the house and the their the dog would be lying in the grass next to them

. The calves would intermingle with the cows in that pasture at the time and thus so would the dog. It was really the neatest thing.

cattle do not view LGD's like other dogs or coyotes or ect... The body language of the LGD is much different. LGDs do not make eye contact and appear with threatening body lang. We had a yr. old very large LGD walk through a herd with calves that had never seen him without much fuss at all. It is really amazing to watch them interact with livestock. Now put a mutt dog or even a border collie in that same herd of mamma cows and you better put your ear plugs in and get out of the way as there will be a lot of comotion

But as great as LGDs are, they will wander. they will need to be bonded to at least a few of the cattle they are expected to stay with and all this will take time and effort. The land that is w/in their site is pretty much their territory and they will protect all of it. If we are talking a small herd of 50 cows on a medium acreage of thousand acres or so, that would be much different and probably more successful than 5 -10 cows on a small 15-20 acres or whatever your AU average is there.

ozark_jewels · #10 02/12/08, 12:48 PM

Good post. LGDs work well with cattle as long as they grew up with them and see them as needing guarded. Our LGDs guard the cattle, the goats, the puppies....anything that is in their territory.
The cows do not see them as a predator and its very common to see the adult dogs sleeping with the calves and cows and even see the pups playing with the calves. LGDs are unlike any other type of dog.
To see the way the goats and cattle react to other dogs is amazing seeing as how the LGDs sleep, eat and live with them. They are simply not a threat. They are amazing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayLOC

I will say that LGDs will bond with and guard whatever they are raised with. But I will venture to say that you will not be able to just purchase a dog and toss it into a pasture and expect it to stay and guard (not saying your neighbors would, just stating this)

We got a 6 mo. old pyr/anat./akbash 2 yrs. back and it was raised with goats and horses. We put it in with our goats. however we had a baby bottle calf in with the goats also and this dog became very very attatched to the calf. The calf got bigger and we turned it out to the pasture with another bottle calf and there were also cows in this pasture at the time. The calves would come up to the house morning and night for their bottles and then graze out in the daytime away from the house. The LGD would stick to them like glue. The farthest away the calves would get was probably a mile from the house and the their the dog would be lying in the grass next to them

. The calves would intermingle with the cows in that pasture at the time and thus so would the dog. It was really the neatest thing.

cattle do not view LGD's like other dogs or coyotes or ect... The body language of the LGD is much different. LGDs do not make eye contact and appear with threatening body lang. We had a yr. old very large LGD walk through a herd with calves that had never seen him without much fuss at all. It is really amazing to watch them interact with livestock. Now put a mutt dog or even a border collie in that same herd of mamma cows and you better put your ear plugs in and get out of the way as there will be a lot of comotion

But as great as LGDs are, they will wander. they will need to be bonded to at least a few of the cattle they are expected to stay with and all this will take time and effort. The land that is w/in their site is pretty much their territory and they will protect all of it. If we are talking a small herd of 50 cows on a medium acreage of thousand acres or so, that would be much different and probably more successful than 5 -10 cows on a small 15-20 acres or whatever your AU average is there.

wendle · #11 02/12/08, 01:38 PM

I believe she has around 30 or more head, on 300 acres all together. Some of their acreage includes cropland. They have no close neighbors, and the cattle are in electric fence. The cows are brought close to the house during calving. I thought if they fed the dog at the house, and kept him in a pen with or near some yearlings he might eventually think of the area as his home. Hopefully the dogs would bond with some of the cows enough to follow them out to pasture in the spring. The dogs are mostly needed for calving time near the house. They would be happy if he watched at least that area. As much as they have seen the coyotes hanging around day and/or night, they are a little worried , and not just about the cows. The coyotes are very bold around here.
Donkeys don't seem to be very effective in this area, I know of a few people besides myself who have had losses even though their sheep were with donkeys or horses. I have had some success myself with a llama if there's just a small group of sheep, but larger than half a dozen he doesn't seem to be as effective, another nearby farmer has the same problem, their llama is good up close to the house and with small numbers of ewes, but they are afraid to let their lambs out for any length of time until they get big. They had alot of losses last summer. I suspect we have some large packs or possibly dog crosses in the area.
Thanks for all the advice and experiences.

francismilker · #12 02/12/08, 03:43 PM

I'm not sure about an LGD but an AK47 would work great against coyotes!

topside1 · #13 02/12/08, 04:52 PM

Here's my LGS (livestock guardian steer), this boy will run down anything that crosses the fenceline, human or otherwise....Couldn't resist, but it's true.

LGD for cattle?? - Cattle

copperhead46 · #14 02/12/08, 05:07 PM

Man o Man, I need that Jersey at my house !! My neighbors dogs have started chasing my cows, and I sure hate to kill them, but I'm going to !! I think maybe I'll look into a Llama, I have a donkey, but she is scared of these dogs, (2 labs and a pit), Do I need to get a young one so that it'll bond with the cows??
P.J.

wendle · #15 02/12/08, 05:18 PM

Too funny topside, too bad they don't have something like that cow around. That reminds me of my neighbor who has hogs. They purchased a corgi to help them move cows and hogs around and sometimes she would get in with the hogs. One time he was watching her in the hog field when a piglet started chasing her . That little piglet just wouldn't let up and ended up cornering her. He had to go get the dog. When he told me this I was sure he would tell me about his dissapointment in the dog, but instead he went on to tell me more about how he should keep that pig to guard against coyotes. I need to ask him if he still has that one. I wonder if it would stay with the cows, hmm.

Tam319 · #16 02/12/08, 05:18 PM

We have a pair of Maremmas that live with our goats. They have been here since they were pups and will bark and the cows and keep them away from the goats. This was problematic as the goats and cattle share a fenceline and waterer. We ended up drilling a second waterer for the goats at the other end of the pasture so the goats spent more time on the far side. The LGD leave the cows alone now that the goats are not in proximity. I think it depends a lot on the individual dogs and how they are raised. Although we've had ours since they were pups they seemed to never take to any of the other creatures aside from the goats. They are very effective though. Our neighbours have 2 Pyrs and lost 25 sheep this year. We haven't lost an animal to predation yet. I think it really depends on the individual dog.