Well, I have a calf

southerngurl · #1 01/12/08, 08:44 PM

My grandpa's calf has been having problems from the get go. It's navel never got dipped and it apparently got navel ill. The calf is I think 2 months old? They've been giving it antibiotics, and it would improve, then when it would be time to end the run, the calf would go downhill again. Back on the antibiotics again, and on and on that way. At this point it's just one leg that's bad, and it won't put any wieght on it. It's very swollen.

Grandpa was going to kill it and I'm a sucker, so what can I say. He said I could have it and if it gets better, it's mine. I'm giving it a herbal mix that I have found effective in other situations, the calf has been penicillined to death. I'm also giving it probiotics because of that (kefir).

What do y'all think, if we get the infection down in the joint do y'all think the joint will be any good after that? I guess we will see.

It's a beautiful little hiefer. Chocolate brown and apparently a real fighter. I believe she's half angus and maybe half hereford? I didn't even ask, but I know they have a (real pretty) angus bull and the mom looked like a hereford.

She doesn't act lethargic or anything, just has a real ugly leg. He said it was better tonight when I picked it up than this morning. He'd been having to pick her up to nurse, but she's up and walking now. I fed her some goat milk. She didn't take much of course, but I think she had just nursed when I picked her up.

southerngurl · #2 01/12/08, 08:52 PM

Oh, does the same thing apply with cattle as with goats with anemia? I checked her eyelids and they don't look very red. Surely she wouldn't have worms yet, just eating milk? I don't think she's been eating well, because she's been down a lot so maybe that's it?

I have horses and goats, but it's been a long time since we had cows, we had them when I was a kid and I don't remember a whole lot about them.

HazyDay · #3 01/12/08, 09:09 PM

All I can say is good luck! (Haven't read up on it. I don't think it would be to bad to add an egg to each quart of milk you give it. Im told it gives it more vitimins and they do better with it

)

southerngurl · #4 01/12/08, 09:25 PM

I just realized this calf is actually more like 3 months old.

menollyrj · #5 01/13/08, 09:17 AM

Don't know what antibiotics it was on, but we've had a lot of luck with Excede (by Pfizer) on young animals. You will probably have to get it from a vet. It stays in the system 7 days and is a subcutaneous injection. Don't know your personal position on antibiotics, but we've used it three times on three different calves with excellent results.

-Joy

LMonty · #6 01/13/08, 12:59 PM

Ashley- thats great! I'm so glad for you! I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed it goes well.

Penicillen isn't a real good drug for joint ill, if thats what it is. I'd use oxytetracycline. 1 ml per 10 kg body weight. Maybe just a small shot of dexamethasone to try to get the swelling down and help the antibiotic get to the infected tissues. And lots of nutiritonal support and kefir! BTW my grains are growing well, starting to increase in size, and I just upped it to almost a qt at a time.

If you want to try it, I've got some Duramycin and some dex here, you can call me if you need me to run it over, I'm off today.

#7 01/13/08, 01:58 PM

This calf needs something a LOT stronger than Penicillin or Oxytetracycline. Joint infections are VERY hard to clear up, because there is very little blood flow into the joint. If she has been suffering with this for 3 months the odds are very slim, that you will ever clear it up. Talk to your vet, he should have a good idea what to try now. There are some new and pretty powerful drugs out there, that may work.

Whatever you do, keep in mind that a cow really does need 4 legs. When they get older, they carry a lot of weight around, and by losing 1 leg, it transfers to the other 3. With a hind leg you can get away with it a lot longer than a front leg. But sooner or later the other (hind) leg will give out due to the extra weight it has to truck around. I know, we have experienced this, we had a calf once that we had to amputate a leg on. By the time he was around 800 lbs, you could see the strain that the other leg was taking.

As hard as it is for you, remember, you aren't the one living in pain. Good luck, I hope this calf does turn around for you. Just that I have had a lot of experience with this sort of thing. It will be hard, and an expensive treatment, that may not work.

southerngurl · #8 01/13/08, 02:19 PM

I understand about the 4 legs thing, I have horses. They just have too much weight for 3 legs.

She doesn't act like she's in pain, but maybe I'm just not used to cows. She is eating hay really well and just standing there looking around at whatever's going on. She doesn't try and run from me now. She's figuring the bottle out, mostly she kinda licks and gums it, but a couple times she latched on for a few seconds. She's taken about a quart today from the bottle altogether.

The area has a bump, like a head on it about 2 inches across. My mom is an RN, she's going to look at it. Do y'all think we should lance it so it can drain out or not? I know y'all haven't seen it, but if mom feels would should, is there a reason not to? I know we would have to keep it clean from further infection once it's open.

menollyrj · #9 01/13/08, 04:15 PM

We had a cow this year that had an abcess on her shoulder joint about the size of a volleyball. DH lanced it with a filet knife and rinsed it with warm salt water, then doused it with iodine. He had to lance it again several weeks later, but it was much smaller (grapefruit) then. Now, she's fine. Has a 2 month old bull calf that is beautiful.

If it is an abcess, it would be (IMHO) wise to lance it as the infection has to drain. It would be better for it to drain to the outside of the body rather than continue to infect the surrounding tissue and bloodstream...

-Joy

southerngurl · #10 01/13/08, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMonty

Ashley- thats great! I'm so glad for you! I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed it goes well.

Penicillen isn't a real good drug for joint ill, if thats what it is. I'd use oxytetracycline. 1 ml per 10 kg body weight. Maybe just a small shot of dexamethasone to try to get the swelling down and help the antibiotic get to the infected tissues. And lots of nutiritonal support and kefir! BTW my grains are growing well, starting to increase in size, and I just upped it to almost a qt at a time.

If you want to try it, I've got some Duramycin and some dex here, you can call me if you need me to run it over, I'm off today.

Hey! That's great that the kefir grew so well, I was wondering how that worked out for you. My grandma gave me some tetracycline. She never used it because it is to be given in water, and all the cows drink the same water. I'm not giving it right now though. I am using an herbal mix I've had a lot of success with and feel it will help. We have found herbs don't work well with drugs by experience, so I'm not giving them at the same time.

Do y'all happen to have any goat milk you could sell? I need some milk for this calf, and don't have enough with just one goat and having to save some back for my cousin's baby.

genebo · #11 01/13/08, 04:48 PM

A cow is just a skin full of organisms that digest the cellulose. Antibiotics can kill off the colonies that make their digestion work. The kefir is a step in the right direction, but there is more to it than that. Live yogurt helps. A probiotic mix will contain several biotics that are needed. You can also feed a little sugar, maybe in the form of molasses or sweetfeed, to help nourish the bacterial colonies. That should keep her healthy while you're fighting the infection.

Only a vet has access to some of the most effective drugs that might cure the infection. A good vet can almost perform magic.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

LMonty · #12 01/13/08, 05:23 PM

Sorry I dont have anyone fresh just yet, but I have 4 bred (I hope) 2 look like they should go soon, Ive got one first freshener thats been making an udder for a couple of weeks. Soon now, I hope! I called another friend up north of Yellville with goats but she doesnt have any either, her doe is dried off.

Eunice · #13 01/13/08, 08:30 PM

I had a lamb last spring with undipped navel that turned into joint ill. We put him on LA 200 (long lasting terramycin) IM for three days and Flip injected it directly into the swollen joints. The lamb got "healthy" except for the swollen knees. Then I started putting Body Balance by Life Force International into his milk when he was over two months old. I could see the swelling go down each day and in about two weeks, the lamb was fine. He is now ready for the freezer camp.

francismilker · #14 01/13/08, 08:46 PM

Have never tried it, but I've heard you can give a calf Baytril for joint ill. It's an anti-inflammatory drug that I've used for other things just not joint ill. They say that if you can get the critter out of it's pain, it will get up and move more and drink more. A calf that's eating, moving, and drinking more would possibly get over things quicker if it's not hurting. Joint ill is nearly impossible to get rid of so it might be worth a try. Good luck.

southerngurl · #15 01/13/08, 09:01 PM

Interesting on the anti-inflammatory.

She is suprisingly active. Everytime I look she is up, often moving around. She is eating well and mooing some too. Funny, she sounds like a full grown cow! Has a funny face, always looks grouchy.

She only had a little over a quart of milk today, but ate a good amount of hay. She is getting better with the bottle so hope to get more milk down her tomorrow.

I think we will probably lance that thing.

southerngurl · #16 01/15/08, 06:20 AM

Well, she is doing well, she's an ornery little thing. She nearly tore the gate of her pen open (it's just a cattle panel). When I was feeding her last night suddenly she figured out the bottle and sucked it down, like someone flipped a switch. When I had to pull the bottle out of her mouth she practically attacked me looking for more. I believe we are going to lance that leg today. Mom looked at it last night (it was almost dark) and she really thinks we should. The calf brings the leg forward and just barely puts the toe down when she takes a step. She walks all over all day, very active.

Oh and she ate a whole flake of hay yesterday.

She comes up to me now instead of trying to get away.

wwubben · #17 01/15/08, 03:12 PM

She should be able to eat some calf pellets with her hay if she is three months old.When she is eating pellets and hay with a little grain you could wean her.Of course she also needs water in front of her all the time.I can not help you much with the bad leg.I would get a vet to look at it if it were me,but I know some people do not go to the vet very easy.

southerngurl · #18 01/20/08, 01:50 PM

An update on the calf. It's been a week already!

The swelling in the leg (which was huge) has gone down by 1/3 or maybe 1/2, though she is still not really using the leg. Just puts the toe down when she takes a step if anything.

She is still very vigorous and is eating 1/2 gallon a day from the bottle, and eating a flake or more of hay per day.

I'm really hoping to see her starting to use the leg some in the next week, but I definately believe you randiliana about blood supply to the joint! It has taken about a whole week to see a change, which was longer than I expected. Of course I'm sure it was a lot of stress to her, being moved and taken from mama.

We did lance the little puss pocket that is sitting on top of it (boy cows have very tough thick skin!) and got to the pus. It was (if you have a weak stomach look away) like vanilla pudding. Quite yucky, but at least it wasn't green or chunky or anything. We just cut a hole and expected it to continue to drain after putting a bandage with a poultice on it. But rather it sealed up overnight! So I don't know if we should cut it again, or if that's just not what her body is wanting to do.

So anyway, she seems to be doing well. I spoke with my grandma and asked her when was the last time she was actually using the bad leg, and she said about a month ago, so that gives me hope that the joint isn't too far gone.

About grain, I put some oats and alfalfa pellets out for her, as that is what I have on hand for the milk goats, but she shows no interest in it at all. Should I mix some molasses with the oats? I actually put the alfalfa pellets in her mouth thinking that she just needed to taste it, she ate them but showed no interest in getting any more. There is a good amount of red clover in the hay she is eating.

Also, what age is optimal for weaning? I know people usually want to wean as quick as possible, but I should have the milk and don't mind bottle feeding her as long as it is of benefit.

southerngurl · #19 01/20/08, 06:02 PM

More good news! At her evening feeding I had her walk for her bottle as usual to check and see if she is using that leg and she is starting to just use it!

wwubben · #20 01/24/08, 01:30 PM

I am happy to hear she is putting weight on her leg.If milk supply is not a problem I would keep giving it to her for a long time.I give my calves milk from a small pail and put a few pellets in the bottom when they have finished the milk.Everything is good if she is eating good hay tho.