Horns pros & cons

[Tilly]

I posted a while back about dehorning my Dexter heifer, and I haven't got it done yet. After working around the mamma who has horns, I'm not so sure I need to, but I'm very new to working up close with cows. All future calves will, by dh rules, be paste dehorned. SO , for you all with milk cows, do you dehorn, have problems with horns, or what?? We have a milking stall, no stanchion, so horns are't a problem there.

[ksfarmer]

I don't have dairy cattle so I won't address the problems with horns there. In general, I will say that unless cattle are on open range where they might have to fight off predators (not likely this day and age), there is no good reason for leaving horns. You can't eat them, they cause problems at feeders, injure other cattle, and are dangerous to the person handling them. Some may want horns for show, such as on longhorns but you must understand the problems they present.

[ozark_jewels]

We have always had horned Jerseys, handled and milked with no problems for 17 years. They are beautiful.
That said, my personal preference is no horns.
All our adult cattle will be keeping their horns, all our replacement calves born from now on out will be disbudded. I prefer not to dehorn older calves and adults if at all possible, I don't mind disbudding calves at all.

[genebo]

I like the horns on my Dexters. They're so pretty, with their bright white and black tips, and are a distinguishing mark of a Dexter.

Good looking horns bring nice prices, too. They're used as ornaments and powder horns. Re-enacters all have to have a powder horn.

As easy going as most Dexters are, the horns aren't a problem. Mine easily learn not to touch me with their horns.

I've had polled cows here, before. They were 1/2 Dexter. They were just as gentle with me, but could be pretty fierce with another cow in a dispute over feeding spots. The lack of horns didn't make any difference.

I actually am more afraid of the feet. While I've never been hurt by a horn, I have been stepped on. Now that hurts!

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[Sher]

LOL..Tilly, people who know us know that we don't much care for dehorning horned animals..especially our Dexters.

Why? I guess in the case of Dexters..they are so gentle that if you use your head about not standing in fly strike area..and keep alert like you should around all animals..there just isn't as big a risk at getting hurt with them.

I DO believe in naturally polled Dexters. Let me make that very clear. There is no stress or abuse related to buying or breeding polled Dexters. And I encourage anyone who wants a polled Dexter to buy just that..a "naturally" polled Dexter.

I don't believe that anyone should keep any Dexter that is in the slightest bit aggressive with their horns. There are too many docile Dexters around to put up with one that shakes or bumps with their horns. And remember, just because an animal no longer has its horns..does not guarantee no injuries from said animal. And animals that wanted to be aggressive with their horns, may well want to continue that practice without them.

Barb Netti owns and breeds polled Dexters. Maybe she could give you some hints.

God doesn't make mistakes...humans do. If a Dexter was born with horns..I think it deserves to keep them. I also think if a person wants a polled Dexter, they should buy naturally polled Dexters. That is what is so great about Dexters...they are "made" to fit almost anyone's taste.

[mtman]

horns are fine ill you have to work on them in a head gate and they get hung up and break there neck

[genebo]

I'm really sorry if that happened to you. I've never had a problem like that. As a matter of fact, it makes them easier to catch in the head gate. They seem to slow down a little and turn the horns to go through. That's when the gate shuts.

I have a goat who has broken both of her horns off. She's the hardest one to worm or trim her feet. There's no good place to hold her. We hold the others by their horns. Nature's handle.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

[mtman]

its never happend to me but it did to the farmer down the road

[Tilly]

Thank-you so much!! Just this evening my older horned mamma cow decided not to go into the milking stall for her grain, and just stuck her head through the very narrow openings between the stall slats. I was so scared she would get stuck and break her fool head off,but she very gracefully turned her head and got out(after eating all of her grain,of course!) I do like being able to use her horns as a handle, and yes, they are very beautiful.

[sammyd]

Horns have no business on any milking animal in this day and age.
Even the standards of the breeds no longer accept horns. Look at the picture of a perfect specimen of say the Holstein breed from the 50s and then look at one today, the horns are gone.
Dangerous to man and animal. If a cow gets bully the first place she will go for on another cow is the stomach/udder area.
Horns decrease resale value as most other milkers do not want them and it is stressful on the animals to remove them when they are big.
If we would have had horns on our cows my mother would not be alive now. One night as we were trying to get a cow and her calf into the barn she turned on mom, knocked her down, and proceeded to grind the top of her head into my moms stomach/ribcage area. She received only broken ribs, but would have been filleted like a fish. This cow was normally one of the most gentlest and easily handled ones in the herd. Dad wouldn't believe me when I told him Sheila had attacked mom and he needed to come in from the field and help out.

[linn]

Horns can be dangerous even on the gentlest of cows. My little Dexter milk cow with horns is very gentle; but she still waves her head around. That is the nature of cows. I was milking her one day outside the stanchion and she swung around to see what was going on and grazed my thigh with her horn tip. We haven't dehorned her yet because she is smaller than most of our cows; but we did dehorn the other two Dexters as soon as we got them. They were not used to being handled and posed a danger with those horns. Let me tell you they had an attitude adjustment for the better as soon as those horns were off.

[Tilly]

linn, how did you dehorn the older cows? popular opinion seems to lean towards cutting them out. The lady whose bull i will be using says the only way she dehorns is with the bands, and she dehorns all her dexters.

[Wendy]

We bought a 3 year old Dexter & the first thing I did was get her horns taken off. I will not keep a horned animal on our farm. It wasn't a big deal to get her horns removed. Took less than 10 minutes & once out of the chute she acted as if nothing had happened. She did have an attitude change towards our other cow. She is polled & Bossy would use her horns on HowNow all the time. And yes, it was always towards the stomach area. Our vet cut them off. He did a great job.

[JeffNY]

Horns are dangerous to both the farmer and the other cows. I've seen cows ram each other without horns, and to think what would happen if they did that with horns, would probably result in some sort of wound. I have been around both, and even those with nubs that weren't properly done as calves are dangerous IMO. We had a holstein/jersey cross and she had nubs. I am not sure if she moved her head not knowing she had them, but when she did accidentally get you, it hurt.

I had a bull here with horns, was a hereford/jersey cross. He knew how to use his horns, and threw the feeder around with them. Regardless how friendly a cow is, they are dangerous. I know of a farmer who had a cow put a horn through her hand, and I beleive it was accidental. They are big animals with a lot of weight/strength behind their head, and a horn that has any sort of point to it, is only going to result in something getting hurt. It really isn't worth the 'look".


Jeff

[Ronney]

Whether a cow has horns or not in this day and age comes down to personal preferance.

All my cows have horns with the exception of those that have been bought in or have had to have them removed because they have broken off and regrowth is going down towards the face. I now run an Angus bull but prior to that even the bulls had horns. No problems with each other or with myself and nor do I expect any.

The only time there is ever a problem with horns is when the cows are yarded in a confined area. Then the pecking order really starts to show as the older, stronger cows use their horns on younger cows to keep them out of their space. While it isn't killing material it could be enough to inflict some nasty hide damage if they were confined long enough.

So up to you Tilly. If your comfortable around your cow and don't feel the need to dehorn, go with it. You can always change your mind at a later date.

Dehorning on a calf can be done at a very young age with paste (not to be recommended) or disbudding. On a mature animal it is advisable to have it done by a vet who will give a local to the horn boss and use something similar to piano wire to cut the horns off. Quick and clean. In this country it is now illegal to dehorn any mature cattle without veterinary supervision.

Cheers,
Ronnie

[gracie88]

So what about taking just the ends off? My neighbor (vet) has offered to do this with my cow. He said we can take about half off without much trouble. I think they're pretty too and they do make good handles, but I think I'll like mine even better less pointy.

[linn]

Originally Posted by Tilly

linn, how did you dehorn the older cows? popular opinion seems to lean towards cutting them out. The lady whose bull i will be using says the only way she dehorns is with the bands, and she dehorns all her dexters.

DH used a little electric saw called a "sawzall". I don't know if I spelled it right. He put the cows in the catch chute and fastened a bull snap in their nose. The bull snap had a rope on the other end that he used to tie their heads up while he cut the horns off as close as possible to the head. He sprayed the area with an antiseptic and gave each cow a shot of antibiotic. Yes, they did bleed; but that soon stopped.
As I said, cutting the horns off made a big difference in their attitude, especially with the one cow that was really fiesty. If you haven't done this before, I suggest having your vet do it. Just take the cow to the vet, who should have arrangements to restrain the animal. He/she can cut off the horns, apply antiseptic and give them a tetanus shot.
Horns are still dangerous, even with the ends off. A cow can easliy swing her head around and catch you a good one with those stubs.

[OregonGuys]

I would recommend either keeping horns (they're nice to look at) or going with the polled gene if horns are a concern for you. De-horning is incredibly painful to the animals and the single worst thing I've ever had to do on our farm. I'd much rather slaughter an animal than de-horn them (death is less traumatic than de-horning). We de-horned our original Dexter heifers, but then acquired a polled (naturally hornless) bull. We now have a mostly polled herd of Dexters and we are thrilled with them - No horns and no de-horning.

Here's an excellent, friendly and calm, young polled red Dexter bull, Cascade's Hotshot, that's available now:




Here's more information:
http://cascademeadowsfarm.com/dextersales.html

Kirk

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[Tilly]

Why do you not recommend the paste dehorner?

I don't like horns.We run a herd of 150 commercial beef cows, 1 horned cow can cause a LOT of problems. They know how to use them, and they WILL. I also work in the stockyards, and have seen up close and personal how a cow with horns can upset a whole penful of cattle. On the cow end of the perspective, they either ALL need to have horns, or none of them. On the people end of it, horns are dangerous. Even the quietest cow can hurt you, even if it is just by accident. And come calving time, if she decides she doesn't want you near the calf, you can be in serious trouble. A polled/dehorned cow can hurt you badly, just think how much worse a horned cow could hurt you. Horns are NOT handles, her head and neck are much more powerful than you think, it is fine if she is co-operating, but if she jerks her head you could easily end up with a horn in the face (or somewhere else).

Now, having said that, we don't dehorn mature animals, unless the horn is causing a problem(growing into the side of her head), or she overtley dangerous (to us OR other animals) with them. Removing large horns can result in heavy blood loss. All of our calves are pasted at birth. Any that are missed are dehorned before they are a year old. Also, when buying cows, I will very rarely buy a cow with horns. They just cause too many problems.