More milking advice please (post calf departure)

cjb · #1 11/14/07, 11:22 AM

So our bull calf will be picked up this Saturday morning. I would like to milk the mom for a few weeks before I dry her out - so we get used to each other.

As discussed in previous threads - she is not letting her milk down for me yet. I separate the calf from her for 12 hours at a time and she just doesn't give it up. I have tried putting him on the rear teats while milking the front and she holds off until I leave.

Is she more likely to let down out of desperation after he leaves? maybe his presence is a distraction? Should I just keep trying it twice a day? I don't have time to coax 4.5 gallons out of her a day at the rate of a cup ever ten minutes so will she dry up on me?

Just a little concerned about how to handle after the calf leaves.

Thanks in advance

Jennifer L. · #2 11/14/07, 12:03 PM

Worst comes to worst, go to your large animal vet and get a bottle of Oxytocin. If it's necessary after the calf goes, just give her a jab of that and she can't play favourites any more. It's a hormone so is given in very tiny doses. It's giving her a shot but a miniscule one. If she's really stubborn, especially at this stage of lactation, yes, she could dry herself off. She'd have to be really sticking to her guns, though. The Oxytocin would short circuit her and prevent it. I'd keep it in mind if after three or four milkings she's still not letting down.

Jennifer

MARYDVM · #3 11/14/07, 03:01 PM

Are you sure she's giving 4 1/2 gallons now? At the end of lactation, production naturally drops quite a bit, which also makes it easier for the cow to hold it back. If her udder isn't really tight after 12 hours without the calf, she may not be producing enough milk for both of you to get some.

JeffNY · #4 11/14/07, 03:56 PM

With our Jersey who has had a bad habbit of not coming down when it was milking time. I let her go, in otherwords said "let her feel the discomfort". About an hour after milking she was at the barn, waited till morning, she was there. Didn't hurt her at all, and she wasn't late in lactation. So with this cow, 24 hours shouldn't hurt her, or even 48. However dont let it go too long, or you could potentially risk mastitis. I say potentially, because there is a chance that she might be fine.

If she does show her stubborn Jersey side too much, I wouldn't worry about her getting used to you, just dry her off. Dry treat her with tomorrow, and wait till feb. You will get plenty used to her in feb. Now if you plan on doing the calf raising thing with the mother. If it ends up being a bull, id send the bull. If its a heifer, you might want to bottle the calf. Because you dont want her doing the whole 'I want me calf' bit. With the Jersey we have, she did this, was with her calf for a few days (usually we take them away 12 hours). She wouldn't let down. Well we won that battle, she stayed in the barn away from the calf (never went back), and she did let down.

You should win, just dont let her go too long.

Jeff

Witterbound · #5 11/14/07, 04:03 PM

Here's probably a stupid response. Do you have previous milking experience? I recall years ago, which was the first and only time I ever tried to milk a cow, I couldn't get any milk because I wasn't doing it the right way.

cjb · #6 11/14/07, 05:37 PM

She may not be giving 4.5 gallons a day - she has in the past. I'm ok with it slowing down - I would be happy to get 2 gallons a day right now.

Thanks for the input. i will hope that getting uncomfortable will force the issue for her.

I have milk experience but only with goats. I'm pretty sure that I'm doing it right as I can't imagine that its drastically different, or is it?

Teacupliz · #7 11/14/07, 07:40 PM

Sing to her find her favrite song--LOL.. message.. sometime warm towels help-- With this BIG HUGE Brown Swiss I got a month ago she did not let her milk down for me-- she is a giant but afraid of everything-- like Jeff said come the second milking she let down and then got better.
If it were me I would pull that new calve do not even let her lick it-- then you and her will really bond and she will be the best milker ever..

Liz- who started with goats....

DJ in WA · #8 11/14/07, 08:01 PM

As MaryDVM suggested, my bet would be she's about dry. Assuming she was actually giving over 4 gallons daily at peak production, the usual lactation curve puts her maybe alittle more than a gallon a day. Meaning a few quarts per milking. That is assuming she's been milked out well a few times each day. If not, then production would drop even more. They switched calves on her, maybe it took a while for her to allow this new one to nurse. Alot of unkowns. Might be time to just dry her up as Jeff mentioned. This site shows a normal lactation curve:

http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus...erd_health.htm

I would think it very unusual that she would not let down with a calf sucking on her. I've not experienced that failure, has anyone else while the calf was nursing?

cjb · #9 11/15/07, 02:37 AM

I honestly don't know if they did or not. (witness the lack of letdown). I don't think they milker her much after putting the bull calf on her.

I would think that she's giving a fair amount because the calf is pretty fat and he doesn't seem nearly as interested in hay as he is in udder. We'll see. He goes day after tomorrow and I will try. Her udder was not that tight after 12 hours away from hmi so maybe she is way down in her product. I would still like to try, however, and see what I can get.

I look forward to the baby being born so we can start up again. I'll have to really think about pulling the calf - seems cruel and like a big pain in the patootey. I'll have to read up on the process of bottle feeding the calf.

Teacupliz · #10 11/15/07, 07:00 AM

cjb-- i pull all my goat kids and my does do not even notice. same with the cows- the few kids I left on a doe- left her udder uneven. will not do that agian-

cjb · #11 11/15/07, 12:32 PM

Can one not let a calf be raised by its mother AND milk? I've done that with goats and it worked fine. I separated during the night at 2 weeks and milked every morning. When they were old enough to wean, I sold them and kept on milking. The does did fine.

just seems easier and more natural.

JeffNY · #12 11/15/07, 02:17 PM

You can, but I have seen a fair share of people on this board and another where people have trouble with milk let down. I then read further and see "she has her calf with her as well". I think what we are doing is trying to suggest to seperate the calf, so you wont have the aggrivation of a cow not letting her milk down. It can work, however if the cow is head strong, she simply will wait.

One other option, but its not sanitary is to milk her, as the calf nurses. However you will end up with calf druell in your milk, unless you like that sort of thing

.

You can try calf and milk her, but I suggest you raise the calf, and milk. I just know when we did that, because the dam wasn't feeling up to herself for a few days, she didn't let her milk down at all for us. Untill we held out, and she eventually had to let it down.

Jeff

jerzeygurl · #13 11/15/07, 04:13 PM

i leave calf on and milk once a day keep calf up at night let her out when im done in the morning

you might consider mastitis as a cause for your problem, i have one that exhibits in that fashion, but it would be unusual for all 4 udders to be infected.

cjb · #14 11/15/07, 05:02 PM

I think she's just stubborn, to be honest. We'll see how she does after her baby leaves Saturday morning.

If I have trouble, I'll dry her out and see how she does when she calves in February. I will research and decide what to do with the calf before then. I am inclined to pull the calf if it is a bull and sell it immediately. If it is a heifer, however, I will probably keep her. In that case, I'll figure out if we're going to bottle feed her or try to manage calf/milking at the same time.

Are bottle fed cows obnoxious likes bottle fed goats? Hopefully, they don't try to crawl into your lap....

JeffNY · #15 11/15/07, 06:40 PM

No, usually between the time you ween them, to the time they do calve, they aren't as clingy. The clingy part will come in how much you spoil the cow.

If you don't want to bottle the calf, you can also train them to a bucket (after a few days). It is rather easy.

Jeff

DaleK · #16 11/15/07, 07:07 PM

Call the seller and find out what their milking routine was when they milked her, whether that was before they put the calf on her or not. When cows are used to a certain pre-milking routine they remember it for a long time. Mine start letting their milk down as soon as I predip them. I know another farm here where the cows started letting down as soon as they heard the vacuum pump come on... they bought a quieter pump and had a heck of a time getting them to let their milk down again.

cjb · #17 11/15/07, 08:14 PM

Dale - smart - thanks.

matt_man · #18 11/15/07, 10:21 PM

CJB- Tough it out for a couple of days and it will get better. When we brought our Jersey home she wouldn't let down either but we got her without the calf so she had to give in eventually. Within a couple of weeks she would let her milk down whenever she saw me. If I went outside, she would be at the fence mooing and milk would be dripping from her teats. When she saw I had the buckets, she would go running for the gate to be let into the stantion.

Rachel