Help California Outlaw Confined Animal Feeding Operations

[ladycat]

See my topic here: http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthr...25#post2643025

[weever]

I don't like CAFOs much, either. But are you prepared to pay more for your food, put many American farmers out of business and then eat imported food from countries where there are no regulations? Can't say for sure that all this will happen, but I know that as long as America is in LOVE with cheap food prices, there will be a place for CAFOs.

BTW, you might try checking out whether the line you're fed has any truth to it. I went to the post you linked to, and it sounds like the same old animal rights alarmist rhetoric. I believe that the words "horribly abused", "misery" and "suffering" are a bit harsh. Even if (IF!) Mr. Farmer is ONLY in it for the money and doesn't care a bit for his animals, he will still take care of them as best he can, because a horribly abused, miserable, suffering animal will not generate him any money. And most Mr. Farmers are *not* in it just for the money, because there's very little money to be made in farming.

Best wishes to you...

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by weever

I don't like CAFOs much, either. But are you prepared to pay more for your food, put many American farmers out of business and then eat imported food from countries where there are no regulations? Can't say for sure that all this will happen, but I know that as long as America is in LOVE with cheap food prices, there will be a place for CAFOs.

It hasn't put them out of business in Arizona and Florida.

And of course, due to growing consumer demand, a growing number of CAFO's are voluntarily converting.

Originally Posted by weever

BTW, you might try checking out whether the line you're fed has any truth to it. I went to the post you linked to, and it sounds like the same old animal rights alarmist rhetoric. I believe that the words "horribly abused", "misery" and "suffering" are a bit harsh. Even if (IF!) Mr. Farmer is ONLY in it for the money and doesn't care a bit for his animals, he will still take care of them as best he can, because a horribly abused, miserable, suffering animal will not generate him any money. And most Mr. Farmers are *not* in it just for the money, because there's very little money to be made in farming.

Have you ever visited a CAFO? I have. It's sickening.

And these aren't little farmers just trying to make a living. These are big operations.

[DaleK]

When you talk about animals being tied in stalls in dairy, you are exclusively targeting the smallest family dairy farms in North America. Nobody else uses tiestalls anymore. You want to put small family farms out of business, keep going down this road with dairy stalls.

[pancho]

While the large factory farms are not what everyone would like to see they are needed. The small organic farmers could never provide the number of animals needed to feed the people in the U.S. The small family farms can not usually produce everything they will consume themselves.
To continue to feed the people the large factory farms are needed unless the people decide to stop eating.

[DJ in WA]

Originally Posted by pancho

While the large factory farms are not what everyone would like to see they are needed. The small organic farmers could never provide the number of animals needed to feed the people in the U.S. The small family farms can not usually produce everything they will consume themselves.
To continue to feed the people the large factory farms are needed unless the people decide to stop eating.

Well, I don't know about "needed". Since there's an obesity epidemic, we could all just eat less or eat more beans.

The other solution is that more people grow their own and use land and yards and golf courses which produce nothing. But of course, that is inconvenient - less time for video games, mall shopping, etc.

[haypoint]

Why is it that the folks that want the government to stay out of their business are more than willing to promote more government regulation for someone else?

[tyusclan]

Originally Posted by ladycat

It hasn't put them out of business in Arizona and Florida.

Once again, thou knowest not what thou speakest.

Florida's "law", which was actually a constitutional amendment, only addressed farrowing crates, and it destroyed the swine industry in this state. I personally know three farmers who went out of business just because of this amendment.

At that time Florida's constitution could be amended by getting the required number of signatures, getting your item on the ballot, and passing by a simple majority. Thankfully, that changed with the last election, and nows requires a two/thirds vote in order to amend.

Do I think there's a better way to raise animals? Absolutely! Do I want someone's livelihood destroyed overnight by legislation? Absolutely not!

[agmantoo]

I postponed replying after I first read this earlier today. I do not have the answer but neither do you. Take the horse processing that was made illegal. Now the horses are being moved to Mexico and the processing is more brutal than ever. Horses are being transported hundreds of miles to be paralyzed with a knife inserted into their spine then having their throat cut. The "lucky" but no value horses are being abandoned to become feral animals. Was not the methods used in the states better than the horses current plight? You are about to drive the confinement raising of meat to third world countries where the conditions will only be worse. I have personally seen how some animals are housed and fed offshore. The conditions often make what you call appalling seem kind. There are no controls and quality inspections to speak of. Meat contaminated with who knows what will then be on the market. Just remember this "the devil you know may not be as bad as the devil you do not know."

[pancho]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

I postponed replying after I first read this earlier today. I do not have the answer but neither do you. Take the horse processing that was made illegal. Now the horses are being moved to Mexico and the processing is more brutal than ever. Horses are being transported hundreds of miles to be paralyzed with a knife inserted into their spine then having their throat cut. The "lucky" but no value horses are being abandoned to become feral animals. Was not the methods used in the states better than the horses current plight? You are about to drive the confinement raising of meat to third world countries where the conditions will only be worse. I have personally seen how some animals are housed and fed offshore. The conditions often make what you call appalling seem kind. There are no controls and quality inspections to speak of. Meat contaminated with who knows what will then be on the market. Just remember this "the devil you know may not be as bad as the devil you do not know."

Thanks for posting that reminder. The large factory farms are not the best way to raise animals but they are necessary. If we outlaw them here in the states that means more of our meat will be imported from other countries. At least here we can have some control over them, those located in other countries will be beyond our control.

[Ken Scharabok]

When I was Croatia in 2001 I was taken to visit a 6,000 head capabilty confinement feedlot for cattle. A series of rounded top buildings. Raised aisleway with feed troughs on both sides. Cattle (predominately intact young bulls) was kept penned in groups of about 20. Plenty of room for them to move about some. Slotted floor so the manure got pushed through to pits below, where it was transported to three large lagoons. They had a thick crust on them with no noticeable odor.

From the day they arrive to the day they depart the cattle don't get any direct sunshine. Seemed quite contented to me.

Feedlot was tied into about 1,000 acres on which corn was grown and chopped when in near dry-down state. Chopped stalks and ears went into open top pits. Remainer of feed was spent beer malt and a bit of salt and perhaps some hay cut from odd corners and such of the property. Fed twice a day. The operator of the side feed wagon eyeballed the amount of feed to put before each pen based on the number and size of the animals.

Place had no smell outside of the pleasant odor of the silage pit (perfume to me). Kept incredible clean. Croatia is a county of chain smokers, yet I didn't see the first cigarette butt on the ground or stray trash.

Operation started out as a state run operation with some sixty workers. Sometime earlier it was sold to a group of investors who almost immediately fired about 90% of them. Place now runs on about four per two shifts and a night watchman.

By law only a licensed vet can administer any medications.

Any animal which had to be removed from a pen for treatment didn't return to that pen. They would be put in with a group of incoming animals until they reached the weight desired, then sorted out to go with whatever was going out that week. Reason given it stopped fighting when they were returned to the same pen. The facility had a small outside yard by each pen. I was told they stopped using it because animals would slip on fresh manure and get injured.

I was not able to get into the nuts and bolts of the operation but was given the impression it was profitable for the operators.

[sammyd]

The only time I have seen cows that were actually confined is on smaller family run farms.
The large "factory farms" have free stalls, feed bunks, open walkways and the only time a cow is confined is when it's being milked.
I have spent time on small farms where the cows are in tie stalls all winter and some even keep them in the stalls year round except for their 2 month dry period. No pasture, just a feed lot for 2 months then back in the stall.

Free stalls are typically roomier than tie stalls or stanchions, and usually have sand bedding or rubber mattresses. Tie stalls and stanchions usually have chopped or long straw as bedding.

"Factory fam" is just another term in the PC language designed to horrify people and influence opinions of people who don't know.

[JeffNY]

You can hear good and bad stories about freestalls. I know in a freestall the animal that isn't as aggressive wont do as well, she gets pushed around. In a tie stall configuration, you can cater to that animal, as she has her own stall. I went to a farm that is freestall run, they had a sick barn with 100 head in it. Various problems from frozen teats, mastitis, feet problems etc.


Personally I like my tie stalls, but our animals aren't in the normal situation. I let them out as much as I can, on super cold days they are in. At night they are in (winter, and super wet conditions). Presently they are outside 24 hours, however shortly they will resume their 12 hour inside time. My stalls are also not your typical stalls. They have ample room, actually they dont have problems laying down, getting up. Room ranges from 52-60". The length of the stall is 72", or about 60" or so of mattress. I use plenty of shavings. They seem pretty content, and lay down often. I have tons of lunging room, stalls are 36" so they can lunge sidways. Neck rail is 46" or so, higher than many i've seen. Chain length is long enough for plenty of movement. The matresses have a foam type under the top cover, and let me tell you. It is as soft as a bed.

So confinement? I think the dairies that dont allow pasture, live a life on concrete, those I personally dont like. I've compared cows that are out to pasture, walk to eat, etc. They seem to be strong/fit/healthy animals. I know ours are well toned, and healthy.

Dunno, I like my tiestalls.


Jeff