how long separated?

a1cowmilker · #1 10/07/07, 05:26 PM

I am back with another question. We have a 20 month old bull that was still nursing off his mother. (long story, things got shook up for a while around here) We separated them last week. She can still see the cows and she moos about an hour every morning and sometimes at night. We have no way of keeping her from seeing the other cows. And she is the head cow if that makes a difference.

How long can we keep them apart without the bull going back to his old ways?

And as always, thank you so much for your advice, this has been a wonderful help to me.

ksfarmer · #2 10/07/07, 09:26 PM

I've never seen a 20 month bull still nursing , but I'm betting this is a habit that will be hard to stop. The cow should be bred by now, if not from another bull , then from this one. why are you keeping this bull if his mother is still in the herd?

francismilker · #3 10/08/07, 09:15 AM

Sometimes the salebarn is the only way to wein a perservering calf. (especially a bull calf) I've separated them for six months before without any results. When I take a heifer away from her mother, she doesn't get to go back with her until she's a bred heifer. (approximately one year) When the bull calves get separated, they never go back to mom.

a1cowmilker · #4 10/08/07, 11:55 AM

Thank you for the advice even if it was not what I wanted to hear. We have three cows and a bull. The mother is a family pet, she is not going anywhere. The bull got kept way too long because everything was up in the air for too long around here. We didn't know if we'd be selling the property, getting rid of the cows or buying more cows, this was out of our control and we just had to wait and see how things worked out.
Turns out, the bull had been busy breeding the cows and we assume the mom is bred back. I had asked a previous question about that earlier. Thing is, this bull seems to be a keeper for us, and it looks like we will be getting more cows along with our new neighbor. He has most of the land, we need to furnish the bull and we both want a gentle can be lead by a bucket bull that was born on the property. We don't have to worry about what we might get at a sale barn if we bought one there.
Now I don't know what I would do, she can't just keep mooing her little heart out every morning. And, I don't think we want to try to pen up a bull, we'd probably just end up fixing a fence.

Again, thanks for the answers on this quandry, I will discuss it with my dh tonight.

dcross · #5 10/08/07, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a1cowmilker

a gentle can be lead by a bucket bull that was born on the property.

That's the one most likely to kill someone.

Also, if he's used to nursing her, he might be nursing the others.

ksfarmer · #6 10/08/07, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcross

That's the one most likely to kill someone.

Also, if he's used to nursing her, he might be nursing the others.

Bingo!! More people have been injured by "Tame" bulls than they have by wild ones. Also, Bingo! on the nursing idea, I've seen this happen too.

a1cowmilker · #7 10/10/07, 02:16 PM

I see your point. I am guessing that if it were you,you would have the bull in the freezer.

ok, second question, how would you go about getting a bull for this heard of three cows? AI is pretty much out of the question as we have no head gate. We don't know of anyone who we could bring our cows to ( or come to us ). We pretty much have to have a bull.

Just when I thought my problems were over........

ksfarmer · #8 10/10/07, 09:16 PM

Another option, rather than putting your bull in the freezer, would be to sell him at a local auction. You could use the income to purchase another young bull to breed your cows. It really isn't cost effective to keep a bull for only 3 cows. If at all possible, I would try to find someone who has a bull they might lease to you for a short time. I know of two neighbors that jointly own a bull. One neighbor calves in the spring and the other in the fall. That way they each have a bull at the necessary time.

Oxankle · #9 10/10/07, 09:29 PM

First, the bull;
If he is nursing a cow there is a device called a "blab" or calf weaner that can be put in his nose. The best ones are metal and have spikes that poke the bull's lower lip when he tries to nurse ANY cow. The spikes poke HIM, not the cow. Some of the others have spikes that poke the cow and cause her to kick him off, but that does not teach the calf/bull anything. Invest in the metal one if you want to keep the bull.

Were this my deal I would take four stout posts, set them so that when lined with 2 x 8 rails the chute would be 30 inches apart. I would then set a stanchion of 2 x 6's across one end. Chute needs to be +/- 7 feet long.

To breed a cow AI I would just lead or pull the cow into the chute, close the stanchion on her head and let the AI guy do his thing. When done, open the stanchion and let her back out. Cost is negligible if you have access to some scrap lumber, or even if you buy.

If you decide to do this, train your cows to the stanchion. Arrange it so that they have to go into the chute to get their feed. Easy to do; take a section of cattle panel and bow it around the front so that the cow cannot get to the feed without going into the chute and putting her head in the stanchion.

You will have access to the best bulls in the world if you go AI. If you keep a bull for three cows you are feeding a loser.
Ox

a1cowmilker · #10 10/12/07, 12:19 PM

We had wondered if you could AI cows without a head chute. And had thought doing something close to what you described, It would certainly be worth the try, we have not lost much and we have an extra cattle panel that would work.

It would be easier to put the bull in the freezer for many reasons, we were really just waiting to see what our neighbor is going to do about cattle. My dh is hoping to share some cows with him. He has most of the land, and we thought we would supply the bull. But we have to decide how long we can wait on that project.

Even if we keep that bull that metal device might just do the trick for us, he is a very gentle bull, but we never ever trust that he would always be that way. I was taught and we teach to never turn your back on a bull and to always know exactly where the bull is before you go into the field.

Sounds like a wonderful Saturday project for tomorrow. Thanks!

JulieLou42 · #11 10/12/07, 08:54 PM

AI chutes are VERY easy to build from a nothing but a few 2x4's and two 8'x4x4 PT posts the dimensions that Ox suggested. I built my own. It's 4'Wx 8'L. It doesn't have a stanchion at the head of it, just a fence 4'wide of 2x4's. It's built against an outside corner of her pen right next to one of the 4' tubular gates to her pasture [pen's inside her pasture]. Attach all the boards to the inside of the chute to the 4x4 posts so cows won't push it apart. I use a simple chain at the back end of it to keep her in place and just tie her to the 4x4 post at her head to keep her there...usually not a problem because her grain's there on the ground in her bowl.

If you look on the lefthand side of this photo just left of the wooden cart, you can see mine:

how long separated? - Cattle

DJ in WA · #12 10/12/07, 09:12 PM

I've had 3 cows/heifers AI'd this year - all were halter trained. Just tied them up in the corner of the shed and leaned on them to keep them from moving around. I've been surprised how well they tolerated the AI guy. Just have to give them some candy when done. Last year I stacked some straw bales alongside them (poor man's stanchion), but then got lazy this year and they did okay.

If yours aren't very tame, need to do as Oxankle said. That would be much cheaper than feeding a bull for years and repairing fences and other things he will damage.