Discouraged with steer training--any ideas?

[Jan in CO]

Got some good ideas from others here, and have tried to implement them, but this nutty steer is still as wild as a range bull. Granddaughter got him as a catch a calf, but he was a year old when the kids were awarded their animals, and wild as a kangaroo. We thought he'd gentle down being in with her last market steer, a total puppy, but nope. He still snorts and paws up dirt every time you go into the pen. He's broken ropes, no amount of sitting there trying to talk to him, attempting to scratch his head--that's as far as you can go, and only for a moment--has worked.

Someone here suggested tying him to the back of the pickup, and having Ash sit on the tailgate as if leading him, then driving around the pasture. Nice idea, but he broke that rope, too. She is supposed to take him to clinics in November and December, then show him in Denver in January, but I don't see that happening. Have put in a call to the folks that run the show, asking when to call it quits. They will come out and observe his behavior, and how she is dealing with him, but other than that, no suggestions that are new. Has anyone ever had a steer that just CAN'T be gentled? Was he too old to start with? He was twice as large and old as others she's had, and I know that intimidated her to begin with. Ash even asked if we can put a bull ring in him, but I don't have any experience in doing that, how they work or how to use them. Seems like a cruel thing to do to a young animal, but he acts like a bull! Thanks for any ideas, Jan in Co

[ksfarmer]

I've seen em that way before. Got a wild streak for some reason and never get over it. Maybe some trauma at a earlier age, maybe just a screw loose. At his age he is big enough to do damage, and I doubt you will ever gentle him. If he is snorting and pawing dirt, I would take care that he doesn't charge and trample your grand daughter.

[tyusclan]

If you know of anyone who has a decent sized donkey (doesn't have to be a mammoth, a standard will do) try to borrow it for a few days. Get one of the sisal rope halters with the lead rope made together with the halter. Get the halter on the steer, and tie a bowline around the neck of the donkey. Turn them loose together, and in a day or two you should be able to lead the steer anywhere you want him to go. I've used this method with some pretty wild cattle, and it does work. If for some reason it doesn't work, put him in the freezer.

[ksfarmer]

The donkey training works on smaller calves, I'm not too sure on a over a year old steer. Watch he doesn't get the best of the donkey. He will probably out weigh the donkey by a lot.

Good lord, I think it is time to cut your losses. If you have done all that you say you have and he is still as nutty as that, it is time for him to hit someone's deep freeze. Far better to do that than have him trample your grand daughter. Find a different steer, there are lots out there that aren't nuts, and finish this guy for your table, or sell him to someone else for that.

Randi

[jerzeygurl]

we started ours at birth

he got colostrum and was always bottle fed, kept in pen, he is now out on pasture and drives and carries saddle bags at apx 5 months old

[dezeeuwgoats]

Could he be a cryptorchid? (Retained testicle) All his 'bullish' behavior would indicate something along those lines to me.

I wouldn't risk your granddaughter's safety - if she's afraid/intimidated - maybe that's just good ol' common sense and instinct kicking in - she's had other animals, this one is different....get rid of him.

Niki

[tyusclan]

Originally Posted by ksfarmer

The donkey training works on smaller calves, I'm not too sure on a over a year old steer. Watch he doesn't get the best of the donkey. He will probably out weigh the donkey by a lot.

I've seen donkeys train calves that outweighed them by quite a bit. A donkey is much stronger than it looks. But that is why I suggested at least a standard size donkey, to make sure it could handle the steer. If you've never seen a donkey train one, it's really amazing to see.

[francismilker]

I agree with the donkey idea. I've seen a very small burrow train a wild steer twice his size. One question, is the steer fighting the halter? Another, have you been tying him to a sturdy post and letting him stand for awhile everyday? I've found that even the bronciest steer will tame down a bit if they're tied with their head slightly elevated. When there neck gets good and sore, they usually change their tune about slinging their head so much. (this may have to be done several days in a row) You can also get some spring loaded nose tongs and clip them in. These work as the best brake pedal you could have when they decide to drop their head and take you for a ride. You definetly need to have them tied up good before you put the nose tongs in. (they don't like it much at first)

And, yes, there are some steers that are just too wild to tame. Last year, I had one that was absolutely crazy. Was a nervous reck for the kids to show him. He tended to act better at the show when there were other steers to follow. I just always had the kids get in the middle of the pack going in to the ring. He needed a leader and a follower to find his place in the world. Good Luck to you!

[Cheribelle]

Go to the day old bread store. Buy a bag of bread. Start hand feeding it. It is amazing how they will come around for that!

[redroper60]

when halter breaking colts we use a duoble thick nylon halter and two bull snaps with a swivel to go to the halter of the colt. Tieing up to good stout post with stout halter should work. Friends break bulls to lead that way. My donkey will lead anything to get his cookie. My dad had knee surgery so we put the donkey and the yearling colt in the areana and the donkey had that colt broke to lead in no time to get the cookie that my dad would carry to the other end of the areana for him.

[Jan in CO]

Talked to one of the women who is in charge of the record books for the catch a calf project, and she told me one 4H member took his calf (from this same batch) to the county fair and it was so unruly it took several grown men to try to contain him. One got a broken arm, another torn ligaments in his arm and shoulder. She said several kids were having problems. Sigh. No option for selling him or putting him in the freezer, as he doesn't belong to the 4H member until they arrive at the National Western Stock Show in January. Part of the rules. This project only gets them market price, no special livestock sale, so I'm wondering if all this is worth making 6 cents per pound! It cost her 83 cents per pound to raise the last one, and the market price was 89 cents. Fortunately there was a junior livestock sale, so she got quite a bit more for that one.

The club beef leader suggested putting him in a much smaller pen, no larger than 12 x 12, and seeing if his attitude improves. We'll try the bread deal, too and see how he responds to that. I'm beginning to think he MAY be a cryptorchid, or have been cut very late, so thinks he's Mr. Studly the bull!

Jan in Co

[montysky]

At this point, put weight on him then when he is finished- turn him into beef. I don't want to see you or your granddaughter hurt or killed by this animal.

[francismilker]

People can brag and boast all they want to about different breeds and good tasting meat, but I've never had any better than a "finished" show calf. I'd freezer him after hearing about the crazy lineage he came from. It's hard to get the crazy out of his blood if sire and dam were the same way.

[Jan in CO]

Well, we tried putting the nutsy steer into a smaller area, and while I was away for a few days, got a call from Granddaughter saying he'd gone over the fence into the dairy goats. Luckily (or not, depending on your viewpoint), he didn't injure himself or any of them. We cannot put him in the freezer, sell him or dispose of him in any way, as he is a 'catch a calf' and ownership is not transferred to the kids who catch the calf, until the show, which is at the National Western Stock Show in Denver in January 08. We're about to the end with him, and will call them tomorrow to make arrangements to return him this weekend, I guess. I just hope they don't try to pass him on to another 4H'r.

I'm not sure who will take him back, as these people are all just doing a part of the job to manage the program. He came from Wyoming originally, and I'm sure not taking him there! Wish we COULD just put him in the freezer that would solve everyone's problem~ Jan in Co

hmm, well, there must be something to fall back on if a kid gets a nutso steer. They are not all going to be managable, and it is not fair to expect a kid to have to deal with one like you have. If nothing else, you should be able to "trade him off" and get a different steer.

[tinknal]

Probably a little late but every time you break a halter you reinforce the behavior. Use multiple halters if necessary but never let them get the idea that they can break a halter.

I feel for you. One year my heifer project in 4-H my heifer bolted, jumped the fairgrounds fence,ran down the road and JUMPED IN A LAKE!!!. She then swam to the middle of the lake! Ended up taking 3rd place..........LOL

[ArmyDoc]

He's a year old? Eat him and start over.

This time start much younger. Consider getting a bottle feeder from a local dairy. It'll grow up with you as it's "mother". Course, good luck if you're planning on ever butchering it. It's hard to sell, much less butcher anything I raised from the bottle. Attachments generally work both ways.

[Jan in CO]

Tinkgal, I had to laugh at the mental picture of your heifer swimming to the middle of the lake! Must have been difficult to judge that one!

Armydoc, The catch a calf program works like this: Kids submit an application to participate, are chosen, then have to catch a calf running around in an arena with a bunch of other calves. Halter the thing, pull, drag or push it to the finish line to establish their order to choose the final calf they get. On a certain date, usually in the fall, they go and select a calf from the rancher who was chosen by the comittee to sell calves to them. THEN the kids take the calf home and raise it, getting title to the calf at the sale date, keeping the money. No choice as to breed or age of calf. Ash has done another two other calves, both much younger. IF we return this calf, I'm sure they won't exchange it for another one. She'll just be out of the program. Two kids had their calves die, and were given another one from the same herd, same age, etc. She'd be starting over with one 18 months old if they gave her another one from that herd, and that's not a good option.

We'll see what they have to say today when I call them. Wish we could just put him in the freezer! These are beef cattle, not dairy. We've done the bottle calf from dairy before, and had no problem eating it. Raised two, sold one and put the other in the freezer. I didn't band them well enough, and when they got older, they got a bit too frisky, so I was more than glad to send one to freezer camp! Thanks for the ideas, tho.
Jan in Co

[tinknal]

Jan, you are in Colorado. Find a REAL cowboy, with a good horse, and hire him for a day or two. Don't just hire him to train the steer, hire him to train the steer AND you.