Picked up calves-MORE questions

[Jcran]

Ok, I picked up two drop calves today...one is DEFINITELY a Jersey; tiny little guy. He is perky as can be, no umbilical cord (looked dried and dropped off) and went for the bottle with zero trouble. The second one is markedly larger but still a Jersey/white color. I was wondering if he's maybe a Jersey cross or a Guernsey. His umbilical cord is still very wet and was dirty. I figure he is less than 2 days old. While he walked around and his eyes looked reasonable bright, he WON'T nurse. I tried to do everything to get him to swallow, etc. but he was one stubborn cuss. He was able to buck a lot and fight, so maybe he had a bellyful of colostrum. I soaked his umbilical cord in 7% iodine and gave both calves probiotics (about 5 cc's?) The tiny one is like dynamite- a lot of energy in a little package. The big one kind of reminds me of the big guy in OF MICE AND MEN-Benny? I am hoping the big one will be hungry when I get home this afternoon (ran them home during my lunch hour). Anything else I should be doing?

[Tango]

Make sure you provide milk-based replacer (not a soy based replacer since pre-ruminating calves can't utilize plant proteins very well). Corner that bad boy with you straddled over him (both of you standing of course) and place the nipple in his mouth with the bottle at a 45 degree angle. His neck should be stretched out and slightly upward. The milk should be at 101 degrees f. (I use a laser thermometer). Talk to him in a soothing low voice. Stroke his neck gently. Once he gets the picture that this is what his milk will taste like and this is how it is dispensed, he will learn to suck on the bottle. A bottle requires a different sucking technique than a teat. He will try to wrap his tongue around it and fail. Do not let him go more than two feedings without sucess. Something I've found of value is that I feed less milk replacer than on the instructions but I feed four times instead of two, giving them the required amount of replacer to meet daily requirements spread out throughout the day. Ive noticed the calves don't scour with this method. Good luck. I've seen Jersey calces with a bit of white on them. Jerseys have black noses and hooves while Guernseys have red noses and hooves

[Jcran]

Both boys are taking the bottle easily...I've given about 3 pints per feeding each at 3 x per day. Is this right...the ---- tag on the milk replacer ripped and is hardly readable. Normal yellow poos so far..the teeny one gallops and tears around; the big galoot eats then finds a spot to lay down. I think he's a really new guy. He jumped and mooed for me this morning but then bedded down immediately. So far so good.

[topside1]

Joan, re-read what I sent you about feeding amounts. If you are feeding three times a day the total amount for the day should not exceed one gallon (8 pints)...Review my PM when you have time....John

[topside1]

The small amount of liquid promotes hungry thus stimulating the animal to eat grasses and grains. Expect them to be sampling some of each around two weeks old. By three weeks old they will be eating much more...John

[Tango]

Topside the best two calves I've raised have been my last two, each drinking 2 gallons a day (not twice the replacer just twice the water). Neither ever scoured. I may have been really lucky but seems to me I ought to try it next time too. Most common is one gallon any idea why?

[topside1]

Let’s all face it, you can actually mix as much water into the bottles as you want. All you’re really doing is hydrating the calves and as we know that's a good thing. Another point worth mentioning is the calves have free choice water all day, bottom line adding more water is a good thing. Most will disagree, but I'm not warming the milk to 100 degrees as I have with past calves. Milk temperatures/air temps. in the 70’s has worked out just fine. Think about it, if a week old calf can drink air temp. trough/bucket water why not milk...it saves me time and has yet to backfire. The two calves I'm presently raising are now three weeks old and have been problem free since day one. This is also the first time I've feed them goat's milk, and I can honestly say these are my happiest healthiest boys I've ever raised...

[topside1]

I think the reason for feeding one-gallon only per day is to encourage the calf to begin eating grasses and grains asap. I'm glad two gallon a day work out for you and I may keep that in mind, but for the time being I'll stick with tradition and feed one-gallon per day per animal...Good to hear from you Tango...Beautiful weather here in Tenn..Lucky us!! TJ

[Tango]

I've got the wrong kind of goats for that but one of my Jerseys has raised as many calves as I have. They do way better with her BTW, I've had new calves not take a bottle with air temp. milk but take it when I warmed it up again.

[sammyd]

The milk replacer should be blood heat. It needs the heat for the fat to be properly mixed. Regular milk can be warm or even room temperature as the stuff is already mixed in pretty well. Warmer is better if the ambient temps are low.

A gallon a day helps to get them sticking their head in the water and feed buckets.
I offer starter (I have used pelleted and textured from Fleet Farm, and grain mix from the mill and had success with all 3 but the grain mix from the mill is cheaper most times and I like the way it looks better) and good 2nd or 3rd crop hay as soon as 3 days. Water is in the pen from day 1.

[Jcran]

OK-Emergency time here; the tiny one who was going gangbusters still is; no worries and yes, though I've been giving them 3 pints of liquid per feeding, the mix was for half that, so 1 cup mix to 2 pints water then added MORE water to make 3 pints-I thought I read someone recommend that). Anyhow, the BIGGER calf who's umbilicus was still wet (led me to believe less than 1 day old) never really got excited about nursing. First feeding was nil, second feeding about 1 pint, third feeding almost 3 pints, then this morning about 2 pints, then this afternoon about 1 pint. At about 3 p.m. I noticed he was scouring. Then almost immediately people showed up to buy goats but the neighbor who was with them said no problem, I've got electrolytes. So at 5 p.m. here we finish up and go over there (point is, all feed stores closed). So I just got back from her house (did sell 3 goats yippee) but the only electrolytes she has are for poultry! CAN I USE IT? The people who bought the goats said they do drop calves and to give LA200 (or biomycin-I've got both), the electrolytes AND peptobismol. I am guessing this calf didn't get colostrum and hoping I can save him. He is mooing but lethargic compared to the other hyperactive calf.

[Lizi]

Hi-I picked up my Jersey babies on Monday night from the auction house.and one of them acted just like yours. I could force a bit of goats milk down him, but no real interest. His head would lol from side to side, and then the bloody diarrhea started. Went to the mill, got Re-Sorb to mix with water for him. It is electrolytes plus it keeps the moisture in the stomach to fight dehydration. I already had planned where to dig the hole; why would he go for that when he wouldn't suck anything?? Well, he latched on to the Re-sorb and two days later is sucking like a pro, running around with his pen mate and being a pest. I estimate he was 24 hours old when I bought him. I will never be without it.

[SHELBY]

you can make a home-made electrolyte by mixing 1 tsp baking soda and 1 tsp salt to a gallon of water.

I had one calf that no matter what I bought and tried to give him he wouldn't drink it but this solution he would and it worked very well for him.

[Tango]

This morning feed stores will be open. I hope you can get to one and give him electrolytes asap. You have two choices. You can purchase elctrolytes or purchase scour med that is a different type of milk with med and electrolytes. The second one would be my choice. While you are at the feed store you should buy a tube feeder for calves. It is very easy to use and might save the calf. As you noted it is an emergency. Once they start to scour and refuse milk they can quickly get into a dangerous situation with dehydration. Do not use Immodium AD for the scouring. Use pepto, kaopectate (or the feed store equivalent) or scour meds for calves. The antibiotic will wreak havoc on the baby rumen. I wouldn't use it. Concentrate on hydration and stopping the scours first. I hope he recovers. Lack of colostrum is a problem at sales with day-old calves but it may not be your little one's problem.

[Jcran]

Fed more electrolytes (the poultry ones, out of sheer desperation) this morning and the scouring calf was as enthusiastic as last night at 11 p.m. I now have two hyperactive bundles of knuckleheaded, bottle-seeking cuteness. I am still running to get RE-SORB as soon as the feed stores open, but it seems like he is MUCH better. How soon can I start to reintroduce the milk replacer? I am guessing the package of RE-SORB will have that info.

[savinggrace]

I think (unless I am behind the times which is possible) current belief on feeding calves is to alternate electrolytes/milk or milk replacer at two hour intervals. Giving nothing but electrolytes makes calves weak.

From what I understand, it's best to give smaller (more frequent) feedings, at least until they ruminate. Which gives the gut some time to digest and move milk through the lower intestine. Supposedly it is broken down into digestable proteins in the upper intestine, if there is too much food, it doesn't all get digested that is when you can have blockages and bloat in the lower intestine. Too much milk can cause scours in an otherwise healthy calf.

Components in the calf electrolytes are designed to hydrate, and if given with milk or too soon after giving milk the electrolytes can actually be more detrimental-the components designed to hydrate bind to the milk and don't do any good.

Personally, when giving electrolyte (which I consider a therapy) I alternate milk, electrolyte and I don't begin the next feeding until two hours after I return to the house.

My goal is generally 3-4 l of milk per day, and 4-5 l of electrolytes per day. If the calf is really weak, I insist upon 1 pint of milk, or two pints of electrolytes during each attempt at feeding. If you are buying the packets, one mixes into two liters of water-well I cut mine to 2.5 l of water.

If when feeding, you think they might be aspirating any, I wouldn't hesitate to give antibiotics.

Best of luck!

[topside1]

Melissa, here is my electrolyte mixture: I haven't had to use it ever since I have been feeding smaller amounts of milk three times a day vice twice. Sure has been working for me...
The second a calf scours I take it off dairy products. And begin giving the calf a mixture of:
powdered beef broth
sure jell
baking soda
salt
3000 mg vit c crushed of course
The powder from one Probiotic capsule
1-2 raw eggs
enough warm water to make 1/2 gallon

[Jcran]

The calves are now doing great after a day of alternating electrolytes with milk. I put two 10 week old boer bucklings in with them as said bucklings were way too interested in their sisters. I've been giving them barley and a little calf manna to assuage weaning. The calves are beginnning to be interested, and one licks up quite a bit, sharing nicely with the braver boer buckling. The barley/calf manna won't hurt them will it, since they're so young (ones just a week old, the other about two weeks old).