Bottle calf - well sorta

Trisha-MN · #1 04/15/07, 04:57 PM

We have a part-time bottle calf that I'm looking for ideas for.

Mom is Angus but is an older cow and doesn't make enough milk so we're supplementing her 2007 heifer calf with a bottle. The calf is taking about 2 cups once a day from the bottle but she doesn't seem to be doing as well as I'd like. Cow & calf are in with the herd and calf has access to grass hay,
water etc.

Are we doing the right thing leaving her with mom and then trying supplement with bottle milk 1x-2x a day or are we better off pulling her from mom so we can better monitor how much milk she's actually getting? What other things should we feed her? (We're just starting her on calf concentrates and alfalfa hay - in the calf creep area).

I'm more familiar with bottle goats than bottle calves.

Thanks!

sycamore · #2 04/15/07, 05:25 PM

How do you know mom isn't producing much? Udder size?
You can observe the calf nursing. Is there milk dribble on it's chin? Does the calf's abdomen feel full after drinking?
Of course when in doubt and you think the calf isn't doing well the feed the calf.
It may be best to do the feeding yourself than to have it die from not enough nurishment.

agmantoo · #3 04/15/07, 06:32 PM

How old is the calf ?

francismilker · #4 04/15/07, 09:57 PM

Ordinarily, When bottlefeeding a calf most folks feed 2qts twice daily. So if you're only supplementing with 2 cups, it may not be worth the time. If the calf isn't getting enough from mom, you should notice it constantly trying to nurse. Most calves running in the pasture with the cow can be found laying around or "hidden" by mom when their belly is full. If the calf is healthy and still isn't full it would be following the cow around and trying constantly to nurse. It's not going to hurt it to leave it with the cow and supplement it's feeding. That is, (if it needs supplementing). But if it does need more milk you should probably start to gradually increase it's intake a little each day. Once again, two cups isn't very much milk for a beef calf.

Trisha-MN · #5 04/16/07, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

How do you know mom isn't producing much? Udder size?
You can observe the calf nursing. Is there milk dribble on it's chin? Does the calf's abdomen feel full after drinking?

Mom is an older cow, in her teens. The reason we don't think she is producing enough milk is her last two calves (bulls) didn't grow as well as the other calves. Her udder appeared to be "drying up" as lacation progressed.

Calf nurses mom and also tries to steal milk from other cows. Calf sometimes feels full after getting her bottle, but I think that may be because she just had breakfast.

I'm wondering if calf is getting enough to get by on from mom but not enough to thrive.

Trisha-MN · #6 04/16/07, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

How old is the calf ?

She's about a month old. We started to bottle her right away because it was a heifer this time instead of a bull calf and we knew mom didn't milk all that well.
We are feeding the calf goat milk... wonder if we should use replacer?

Trisha-MN · #7 04/16/07, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francismilker

Ordinarily, When bottlefeeding a calf most folks feed 2qts twice daily.

We started out with 2qts twice a day but after a week or so the calf didn't want to drink that much and tummy felt full. I noticed this weekend, however, that the calf was calling for some milk so I went and got some and she drank about a cup and a half. We can't feed her during the day so she only gets milk twice a day and I'm wondering if we just happen to be timing it the same time she is getting milk from mom (e.g. breakfast & dinner) so she isn't as hungry. I was thinking about trying to hang a nipple bucket in the calf creep so the calf could nurse during the day as she wants too?

#8 04/16/07, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trisha-MN

We started out with 2qts twice a day but after a week or so the calf didn't want to drink that much and tummy felt full. I noticed this weekend, however, that the calf was calling for some milk so I went and got some and she drank about a cup and a half. We can't feed her during the day so she only gets milk twice a day and I'm wondering if we just happen to be timing it the same time she is getting milk from mom (e.g. breakfast & dinner) so she isn't as hungry. I was thinking about trying to hang a nipple bucket in the calf creep so the calf could nurse during the day as she wants too?

What I like to do when I think a cow hasn't got enough milk for a calf is to separate them for a few hours, and then milk the cow out. The rule of thumb I go by is at least 1 gallon of milk/24 hours. So if you leave the cow for 6 hours you would like to see at least 1/4 gallon (preferrably more).

Case in point, I just did this with a heifer this morning. Separated them yesterday afternoon (4 o'clock ish) and milked her this morning around 9 AM. Sum total of the milk out of her was less than a litre. That is less than 1/4 gallon in 18 hours. So obviously she isn't producing enough. We had been supplementing the calf 3 bottles (1 1/2 litres) every day for the past couple days and the calf was eating most of it. We will give this heifer a bit more time, supplement her with grain, and I gave her some antibiotic because she smelled bad (I can smell an infection) which may have caused her to reduce her milk production. If she doesn't improve within a week or so we will pull the calf completely, and she will probably end up in the deep freeze.

As to whether or not to leave the calf on the cow, it is up to you. If the cow isn't producing anywhere near what the calf needs it would probably be easier to just pull the calf. If you just need to supplement a bottle a day, then I would leave the calf on the cow. Another thing you could do is creep feed the calf. That will help it grow as well.

agmantoo · #9 04/16/07, 12:52 PM

I am going to be critical. With the cow demonstrating problems with two previous calves why do you still have her?

With the calf already a month old, I would just continue to do as you have been doing and I would provide creep feed additionally for the calf which can be weaned soon.

tyusclan · #10 04/16/07, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

I am going to be critical. With the cow demonstrating problems with two previous calves why do you still have her?

I agree. Any cow that cannot wean a calf every year with very little help from me will not stay in the herd.

sycamore · #11 04/16/07, 01:42 PM

Good point. You gave her 2 tries to improve prior to this, she may need to be culled (should be). Sentiments aside, the calf suffers by not growing well, getting 2 different types/breeds of milk, working hard to only get a little milk from mom that could be nutrient defficient on top of that.
Our month old calves that were bucket fed, were usually getting a 2-3 qts of milk twice a day (or more).

Trisha-MN · #12 04/16/07, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

I am going to be critical. With the cow demonstrating problems with two previous calves why do you still have her?

Not critical at all and I agree 100% having asked that question myself... but the cow isn't mine, she is in my father's herd and it's his say - could be the cow carries some genetics (this herd has been going since the 1930's) he wants or he is attached to her after having her in the herd for so long - he hasn't responded yet to that question, but he did give us the heifer calf so I'm going to try to do as much as I can to do what is best for her.

Thanks all!

tinknal · #13 04/17/07, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

Good point. You gave her 2 tries to improve prior to this, she may need to be culled (should be). Sentiments aside, the calf suffers by not growing well, getting 2 different types/breeds of milk, working hard to only get a little milk from mom that could be nutrient defficient on top of that.
Our month old calves that were bucket fed, were usually getting a 2-3 qts of milk twice a day (or more).

On the other hand a cow that consistantly produces a calf into her teens has something going for her. Not a bad idea to squeeze as much out of the genetics as you can. Does the cow keep condition? Does she have any teeth left? It could be (if the cow is kept) that the best thing you could do is grain the cow both pre and post lactation to increase milk production. Another idea would be to breed her later so she has plenty of tender green grass when she freshens.