Newby cattle questions

[mlhoward]

First post, and some newby questions.

I am considering buying 4-5 Milking Devons and a beef sire bull to produce grass fed beef for my (extended) family. My thought is that the Milking Devons will provide good milk to the calves, and use a beef breed sire for both the beef conformation and heterosis. I'd like to keep them grass-fed all the way to slaughter.

So my questions are:
1. Is this, in general, a good plan.

2. If so, what are some beef breeds that will produce fast growing calves with white fat? Also that will do well in SE TN.

3. The property is has about 5 acres of very good pasture, about 10 acres of ok pasture, and anther 5 of basically scrub. I'm thinking about putting a couple of goats on the scrub. Is this adequate for the number of cows?

4. I am thinking Milking Devons due to their reputation for good weight gain on grass. Are they a good choice?

[tyusclan]

1. Basically, yes. If you're producing for your family, you should have a market for your calves already.

2. I would recommend Angus. The only thing you want to do is look around paitently until you find someone who raises cattle as nearly like you intend to raise them as possible. If you buy a bull that's been fed grain all his life, his calves are not going to look like him on grass.

3. Depending on where you are in the country, probably. Subscribe to the Stockman Grass Farmer, and find out all you can on rotational, and stockpile grazing to extend your pastures as much as possible.

4. There's nothing wrong with Milking Devons as far as I know. I personally have no experience with them, so can't really express an opinion. I personally would suggest sticking with Angus cows as well as the bull. Even a beef cow will produce plenty of milk to raise her calf. With a milk breed, even a relatively low producer like a MD will sometimes produce more than a calf can take, especially in the beginning. When that happens the cow is going to adjust her milk production down to what is being taken. You then wind up with capacity to produce more milk, but no real use for that capacity. Again, the key is to try to find cattle being raised like you want to raise them.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

[travlnusa]

I would suggest that you look into AI rather than keeping a bull for only 4-5 head.

Fully agree with the other posting above.

This is a reasonable plan. I would maybe stay away from a dairy breed if you are planning to go grass only. The biggest problem with them (any dairy) is that for them to milk, raise a calf, and rebreed they usually need more energy than they can get out of a grass only ration. You may find that you will have a lot of cows that just don't rebreed on time (approx 80-100 days after calving).

For a grass fed beef, you will want to find smaller framed animals. They have lower feed requirements, and will finish earlier than a larger framed breed. However, carcass size will be lower. Fat color, to my knowledge has more to do with what an animal is fed, than it does with breed. I could be wrong on that.

I would suggest staying within the British breeds for your mother cows for sure. Shorthorn, Hereford, and Angus (red or black) would all work well. And cross breed, that will increase your growth rates, and help you end up with cattle that finish earlier on grass (or grain for that matter). For example, use a Shorthorn x Angus cow, and breed her Hereford. Look around though, and pick the right type of animal to fit YOUR requirements. You will want to look for shorter, long, deep cows. Stay away from taller, leggier and scrawnier animals, they will not perform as well on grass.


As for the amount of land you have, I really could not say. If we were VERY lucky in our area that would run 3 pair.

[tyusclan]

Originally Posted by travlnusa

I would suggest that you look into AI rather than keeping a bull for only 4-5 head.

I agree that AI is an excellent alternative. I would only suggest making sure the AI bulls you breed to carry the genetics suitable for grassfinishing. Your typical AI sources will not have those genetics.

[Philip]

With limited feed and cows, AI is the best path - the hardest thing being to spot when the cows are coming into season. We use an indicator put on the back by the tail - it turns colour when they are bulling.
We run a 'grass-only' regime on 17 acres, and have settled on 2 cows with calves, 20 or so sheep, and usually grow 5 acres of cereals in spring to feed the gamebirds we farm, planting in oats and winter turnips/kale/brassicas when the cereal is headed, and normally shut up 2-3 acres for hay or silage. Depending on your ability to grow grass all year round, or make winter feed if not, then 4 cows with calves is probably as many as you would want, particularly if you retain some of the calves past 1 year when the cows calf again (ie you would have 4 cows, four 1-2 year steers or heifers, and four new calves - a heavy number to carry)

We go for dairy beef - with Jersey cows being AI-ed by Lowline semen. They produce a naturally polled (very handy) white-fat beast, that calves easily and grows very fast into a well-found animal (eg our last steer, slaughtered at 10 months, dressed out at 175 kg's)

We formerly had some Friesian cows as well as Jerseys, but found that there was a lack of return for the larger animal when compared to the smaller, and particularly over winter, when a Friesian will eat more than 2 times the feed of a Jersey (14kg per day compared to 6) but the calf when slaughtered doesn't reflect the dams bigger size when measured against the Jersey cross. With wet winter ground as well, we had much more pasture damage with the larger animals that required more pasture renovation each year (badly pugged paddocks produce less grass, and can be a serious problem for 'grass-farmers')

[agmantoo]

In zone 7, I could carry 7 adult animals on your acreage, sell offspring as feeder calves weighing 550 lbs.plus and feed yeararound without having to bale hay. The mature animals would be Angus conditioned to grass and the average cow weighing 1050 to 1100 lbs. These grass fed animals will exhibit fat with a yellow coloring. Grain is necessary to get the fat white. You do not want cows that will milk heavily. On grass they will lose too much body condition while the calf is nursing heavily and the cows may not breed back. You just need enough milk for the calf to grow and to get the calf to forage. You will want a calf every 12 months.

[vallyfarm]

My father has loved those fool Devons for ever. He used to have the largest herd in NY, but got ill when I was in the army, so had to let them go. He is now 76 and has started up a new herd of them. I feel they are one of the best breeds for your goals. They have almost no medical problems that I have seen...been around them for moer than 20 yrs. Go A.I. for sure. Just don't go for a large/huge bull for the first time. This applies to all breeds if you are not an expert at calving. Smaller calfs are a lot easier to deal with. They are friendly, an excelent mother, calm and thrifty. They do not gain quite as fast as some of the "beef" breeds, but the meat is the best I've had. The only thing is the registration process is a bit, shall we say, tricky. They have been working on that, and may be good to go by the time you need to worry about it. They are a little steep to buy, but they are one of those endangered/ watch/ or what ever breeds. Very nice animals, and the neibors will all want to know about those red cows, theirby making future meat sales already. Mike

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

Are you going to milk the Milking Devons?? If not, why not try angus or brangus cows bred AI to lowline angus bulls. Keep the half lowline angus heifers to rebreed to lowline, and butcher smaller lowline steers. As you replace the Angus heifers with half lowline heifers you sell the original angus cows. Half lowline angus heifers sell for $2500.00 and up. 3/4 lowline heifers sell for $4000.00 and up. Full blood lowlines are crazy. You are constantly upgrading the "lowlinedness" of your herd, eating the steers and selling the cows you replaced with the upgraded percentage heifers.

Not only will you be breeding more valuable cattle over time, but the smaller cattle are much easier on fences and eventually you get smaller size cattle (approx 2/3 size of a normal angus) which live on half the feed.

[Up North]

Originally Posted by tyusclan

... The only thing you want to do is look around paitently until you find someone who raises cattle as nearly like you intend to raise them as possible. If you buy a bull that's been fed grain all his life, his calves are not going to look like him on grass....

Very important point tyusclan makes: If you buy a spoiled spoon fed bull who has had the feed brought to him, rather than the bull learning to go out and harvest his own feed, well, there may not be any calves to find out if they look like him, LOL. Bulls raised in this fashion can be rolling in clover and still stand around waiting for their servant to bring them their food. You put them into your grass-fed system, they fail to harvest their own food, skinny down, lose body condition, and fail to breed anything .

You want to buy a bull from someone who farms like you farm.
Yeah, what tyusclan said .