HELP! Goat or cow, why can't I decide!?

[DixyDoodle]

Ok, here's my dilemma. I have been vacillating between goats and dairy cows for awhile. Not sure which way I should go. Just when I think I'm sure, I hesitate and start rethinking.

I don't have a preference myself. Goat or cow. I just want milk for the family. what I prefer:

1/An animal that can withstand -30F temps in the winter
2/A dairy animal that can give us milk reliably, but I would guess that a gallon per day would be fine, so large amounts not necessary.
3/Milk that tastes pretty much like cow milk---I have one son that loves goat milk, the other says he would prefer cow although I am not sure he could tell the difference if given the choice, do you think he would notice? We have had store bought goat milk and I find it almost identical. Is whole goat milk very goaty/strong tasting? I was also told by some that if fed properly, goat milk is hard to dicern from cow.
4/Something that is hardly, economical, and not hard to handle.

The benefits to a goat:

--they are hardy and small, cheaper to feed and care for
--they would be safer around children
--quicker to milk and not a lot of excess milk to get rid of
--aside from originally getting special fencing, easy to contain (I hope! LOL)
--having two does and a buck would guarantee a fairly steady supply of milk in comparison to having one cow

Downside of goats:

--goat milk may not be "likeable" in taste for everyone
--may be escape artists
--not enough milk? What does the average goat produce per day in milk, on best days? What about with mini's (I ask this because I know of a few people who sell dairy mini's)

The benefits of a cow:

--lots of milk, excess could be frozen
--milk that everyone would drink, no problem
--no special fencing required (we already have page wire, and the majority of cattle in my area are fenced with it, no probs)

Downside of cows:

--larger so perhaps harder to handle and care for (thinking in terms of foot care, etc)
--more expensive to feed
--may damage fences over time, requiring more frequent fence repair--this would depend on the cow I guess
--longer time milking per day
--more potential danger in terms of handling, not so suitable around kids


Well, what do you think? Are there other issues to consider in my choice that I am missing?

I was originally thinking of maybe getting a dexter cow, but again, goats are nice. I really don't want to get into both. Do you think it's worth the chance to buy a few goats and see how they work out? And if they don't, go for a cow? It would be cheaper to start off with goats.

Sheesh, I can't believe it's so hard to make a decision! HELLLLLLLP!

DD


(PS> I will post this in the goat forum also)

[jerzeygurl]

goats require more foot care than cows in my experience, at least ours did as they were in small pasture and cows can go further on more rock, have never trimmed any of the cow's feet.

I've had more goats get out than cows.they also get thier heads caught in fence.

had more problems with goats and worms as they graze so close and again we kept them insmaller pasture as the whole place is not woven wire, it is much easier to keep a cow in,

as for danger...ever been mauled by a bunch of pygmy goats??they look cute but thier horns hurt, they also bite bare legs i suppose for the salt.

dont get me wrong i bought a goat to have arround, because i miss them, and she really isnt any trouble, but she is just one


tho if a cow steps on your foot it can hurt

[Timberline]

I currently have both milk cows (Dexter and Dexter x Jerseys) and a Nubian goat. I have milked the cows for 10 years, and I just got the goat last fall (she is my first). Here's what I have learned:

Goats are much cheaper to buy, house and feed.

Goats require tighter fencing and more predator protection.

Goats require less clean up time. My Nubian is much cleaner than the cows. As muddy as it's been here, her udder and teats are always very clean. I usually have to scrub a lot of muck off the cows' udders.

Goats are much cleaner in the barn. We've had a long cold spell here, and my Nubian and two young doe companions have spent most of their time in their barn (they can come and go as they please). There are pellets and some urine in the straw, but it smells clean and fresh. I've had a small Dexter in the same barn for just a couple of days and it's a real mess.

If you buy a bred female, or a young one to raise and breed, goat gestation is 5 months and a cow's is 9. Goats often have multiple kids while cows generally have just one calf (occassionaly twins).

If you want a breeding herd, a buck will need much less feed and space than a bull. But, bucks can sure be stinky during breeding season. My does don't smell at all.

Goats are easier to haul and handle. When I bought my Nubian, we picked her up and set her in the back of the pickup with a camper shell on it. Always have to pull the trailer for the cows (that really does a job on the gas mileage). We have stockracks for the truck, but there are few places around that have a loading dock, so the trailer is easier with the cattle.

Dairy breed cow will give much more milk, while a good dairy goat will give many Dexters some real competition. My Nubian gives a gallon a day when fresh. I am getting ready to dry her up (kids are due April 21), and am currently getting a little over a quart a day (milking once a day).

You can usually sell a calf for more than a kid. I prefer beef, so like to have calves to raise for that.

At first I was a bit leary of the goat's milk tasting goaty, but it isn't at all. It tastes every bit as good as the cow's. Either cow's or goat's milk will taste off if it gets dirty in the barn. Get some manure, dirt of hair in off the animal and it will taste cowy or goaty. If you want to make lots of butter, you will need a separator for goat's milk, while cow's cream will rise on its on.

Goat's milk is better for you. It is less allergenic (does not contain the complex proteins that cause most allergic reactions to cow's milk). It does not suppress the immune system like cow's milk can (for same reason as above). It's easier to digest. It has more buffering capacity than cow's milk, soymilk, and over-the-counter antacids (great for those with ulcer problems). It contains the highest amounts of the amino acid L-glutamine of any dairy product (L-glutamine is often recommended by nutritionists to help increase the pH of the bloodstream). It contains twice the healthful medium-chain fatty acids, which are highly microbial. It is rich in selenium. It contains more vitamin A than cow's milk.

These are the reasons why I decided to try a milk goat after so many years of milking cows. I've only been at it a short while, but so far am thrilled with the goat milk and the ease in getting it. The goat is much less work and is faster and easier to milk (just two teats!). In fact, I am so pleased that I am currently selling the Jersey cross cows. My goat is very economical, she eats in a week about what one of the Dexters does in a day.

On the plus side for my Dexters, they are a great breed and we enjoy them tremendously. The milk and beef are both wonderful. They are gentle and easy to handle. Some of the best friends we have made in the last several years are other Dexter breeders (great bunch of people). Dexters are unusual and great conversation pieces.

I guess it boils down to deciding which you prefer and what you find available near you. It's probably going to easier (and almost certainly cheaper) to find a good milk goat.

Good luck!!

[tinknal]

I think that you should consider how the excess cow milk can go towards feeding your family. You can give some to the calf to raise beef, some to the pigs to raise pork, and some to the chickens to raise eggs. You can get enough cream to make butter and feed the skim milk.

[jerzeygurl]

and one more thing\

The benefits to a goat:

--they are hardy and small, cheaper to feed and care for

that is not true despite popular belief, they are not hardy, very susceptable to many diseases and worm infestation and require constant vigilance. This is not just me talking, had long talk with vet, and neighbors and fil all have goats and its a lot of work,

I will never have a number of goats again, i do keep the one because i like them as pets, but i wont do a herd of them again.

[tinknal]

Goats are also much more subject to predation. Anything from a dog on up can take down a goat.

[genebo]

My vet says that when something goes wrong with a cow, you have 2 weeks to cure it, or it'll die. If something goes wrong with a goat, you have 3 days to cure it or it'll die. A sheep is born with it's head down, looking for a place to die.

Now I know that's an oversimplification, but it points out the fact that a goat is not as hardy as a cow. A cow has more reserve. It gives you time to treat it.

Dexter cattle are pretty tough. They are raised all over Canada. Their milk is more like goat's milk than other dairy breeds. The molecules are smaller, it's easier to digest. The cream takes longer to separate. Yet it tastes like cow milk, which it is.

Some breeds of goat give strong flavored milk. Nubians are supposed to give some of the best tasting goat's milk, but they are not very hardy.

Genebo
Paradise Farm
Church Road, VA

[Slev]

Dix,
I'd say go with the goat for starters. If you're wrong, it's a lot less of a step in the wrong direction than it would be with a cow.

[DJ in WA]

I tried goats for a few years and finally gave up – it all came down to flavor. Yeah, everyone has great solutions, but they didn’t work for me. Someone mentioned cleanliness. I know something about that having been a health inspector for years. Still could not get consistently good tasting milk. Travelled hours to get the best hay, but still no luck. Got tired of the family refusing to drink the milk. Took it to a family reunion once and many didn’t like it.

Finally decided it was the simple fact of them being goats, and their hormones. The goaty taste in milk is like the smell the bucks give off. Yes, that’s supposed to be another solution – keep the bucks away from the does or they’ll absorb that stink into the milk. That didn’t work either – in fact, we only had a buck for a few weeks during breeding time.

I have had a cow for a few years, and have not had a single sample of bad tasting milk. And sometimes she eats things she shouldn’t – pine needles, weeds, etc.

So, perhaps there are certain breeds of goats that have better tasting milk. I had a Saanen and a Nubian/Alpine cross. One was worse than the other (I don’t remember which).

I never ate it, but goat meat is also supposed to taste like goats. Now, everyone’s taste buds are different, so maybe you’d like it.

Goats are more efficient, but if nobody wants the milk or meat, that doesn’t count for much.

The other question is your personality. I am quiet, and I didn’t enjoy the bleating from the goats every time I stepped out the back door. Cows are quieter.

As stated above, goats are much cheaper, so wouldn’t hurt much to get a few and try them out. Maybe you’d be lucky and get one with better tasting milk, and maybe your taste buds would like it.

[DixyDoodle]

I've had more goats get out than cows.they also get thier heads caught in fence.

Ah, that wouldn't be an issue with me as they would be in goat fencing, not out in the pagewire fencing.

The goat is much less work and is faster and easier to milk (just two teats!).

Now there is a good point I didn't think of! LOL

Dix, I'd say go with the goat for starters. If you're wrong, it's a lot less of a step in the wrong direction than it would be with a cow.

I'm wondering if you might be right. And since I have no experience with cows....a cow is more difficult to maintain, isn't it?

I am quiet, and I didn’t enjoy the bleating from the goats every time I stepped out the back door. Cows are quieter.

Wellll......I like the heehawing of my donkey so the goats would hardly make a dent in sound around here in comparison. And then add that to the roosters crowing. LOL But then again, my donkey doesn't bray much, I actually wish he would. I think it sounds cool! I hear enough of cattle, my neighbour has a huge dairy operation, there is always someone mooing down the lane. I don't mind that either, though.

DD

[susieM]

Cows are bigger, goats are buggers.

[Haggis]

My first head of livestock was a milk stock goat, and I was perhaps 5 years old. Herself and I had a small herd of several Saanens for milk something over 20 years ago, and if I could not find a house cow I would be sorely tempted to have them again, but only until I could find a cow.

The are quicker/easier to milk, but their equipment takes as long to wash as an animal giving 10 times more milk, and one still must be at home twice a day to milk an animal whether it gives a quart to the milking, or 3 gallons to the milking. I did not enjoy a single part of goat ownership, except of course, the milk; well, that's not entirely true, I did too enjoy selling them.

[Up North]

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

I never ate it, but goat meat is also supposed to taste like goats. Now, everyone’s taste buds are different, so maybe you’d like it.

We eat Goat Meat Shisk-a-bobs with Orange, red, and green peppers and other veg. Most Excellent! Have yet to experience Goat Meat that had a Goaty, or "off" taste to it.
Naturally it is possible to get a cut of Goat Meat that has an undesirable flavor, just as it's possible to get a glass of cow's milk that tastes "cowy" from poor handling or preparation of the product.
I really think North Americans in general perpetuate stereotypes about foods that don't fall within their cultural norms.

[Up North]

Originally Posted by genebo

My vet says that when something goes wrong with a cow, you have 2 weeks to cure it, or it'll die. If something goes wrong with a goat, you have 3 days to cure it or it'll die. A sheep is born with it's head down, looking for a place to die.

Genebo - having worked a few years on a Sheep & Cattle Ranch, all I can say is: You Got that right!

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

II never ate it, but goat meat is also supposed to taste like goats. Now, everyone’s taste buds are different, so maybe you’d like it.

This has everything to do with the killing and handling of the meat and nothing to do with the animal. A properly killed goat that is cleanly butchered tastes like very rich roast beef. My family loves both beef and chevon(goat). If the goat is stressed before killing and improperly butchered, it will taste nasty. But so will a cow and anythingthing else. I butcher my own so I know its done properly and the goat is never stressed.

[ozark_jewels]

Originally Posted by genebo

My vet says that when something goes wrong with a cow, you have 2 weeks to cure it, or it'll die. If something goes wrong with a goat, you have 3 days to cure it or it'll die. A sheep is born with it's head down, looking for a place to die.

I disagree with the goat part but I sure do agree with the sheep part!

[ozark_jewels]

I love both my Jerseys and my goats. For your situation right now, I'd say try a goat. BUT!!! Milk the goat before you buy. Taste the milk from *that* goat before you buy. And just like with certain diseases in cows, be SURE she does not have CL(abcesses) before you buy. I am not as fond of Saanan or Alpine milk. For the best tasting milk, I highly reccomend a Nubian or a Lamancha. Their personalities are also the best in my opinion. And buy two, because they are herd animals and one will drive you crazy looking for company. Some people cannot get past the Lamancha look.....I was one of them for years. But I tell you truly, they are like *the best* homestead animal. They are healthy, hardy, usually quiet, don't outdo themselves milking but give quite a lot, easy-keepers and loving companions. And the kids are adorable!! I highly reccomend the Lamanchas!



Cute?? I think so!

[xoxoGOATSxoxo]

I only trim my goats hooves once every month or two, depending on how much straw is in the pens. we have concrete floors. I have only ever had 2 goats who have been prone to foot trouble, all the other never had ANYTHING wrong with their feet at all.

Hey, Dj in WA, maybe you just had the bad luck to be stuck with a couple of goats that just have naturally icky milk. Some are like that, you know. Wouldn't be your fault, especially if you were a health inspector.

And jerzygurl and genebo, goats ARE hardy. And nubians are just as hardy as any other goat. Of course there are a few that are born weak, usually due to poor genes, or contract some illness early in life that causes failure to thrive, but the VAST MAJORITY almost NEVER GET SICK. Also, if they don't have horns, which dairy goats as well as dairy cows shouldn't, they will not get their heads stuck in proper fencing.

My goats don't graze close to the ground, though the sheep do. And we worm all of the animals on a regular basis anyway, so it would'nt really matter all that much if they did.

My goats have chased coyotes and attacked dogs. They are big goats, and not scared of canines. Even if you have wolves, you can get a guardian dog or llama to keep tham away.
A group of llamas have been proven been very effective with wolves, although one can be overpowered.


I like cattle, but I like goats better. They are easier to handle and care for, more economical, and more personable.

[DJ in WA]

Naturally it is possible to get a cut of Goat Meat that has an undesirable flavor, just as it's possible to get a glass of cow's milk that tastes "cowy" from poor handling or preparation of the product.
I really think North Americans in general perpetuate stereotypes about foods that don't fall within their cultural norms.

I’m curious about this “cowy” flavor. I’ve never experienced it. Growing up, I can’t say we always handled cows milk properly compared to how I do now. Now, maybe it’s just that as an American, cows are the norm, and it is what I am used to. I am not used to “goaty”. But “goaty” is definitely there. Maybe you are used to “goaty” and so you don’t notice it, or maybe your taste buds are different than mine.

I have guys at work who swear that venison tastes great also. They blame any taste problems on poor handling. Yes, deer can taste good, but it often doesn’t to me. I’ve often gagged it down just to be polite. I don’t think I am “perpetuating stereotypes” about deer meat, I’m reporting what my taste buds tell me.

Yes, I haven’t tried goat meat, but someone nearby who raises them said people around here who’ve immigrated from Middle East demanded it as they don’t like beef. He said to them the goaty flavor is normal and desired.

If the goat is stressed before killing and improperly butchered, it will taste nasty. But so will a cow and anything else.

I doubt it was stress that made the goat milk taste like the smell of a buck. I’ve also killed and eaten stressed chickens and turkeys and no bad taste. Never had bad beef, and I can’t believe some of them weren’t stressed or butchered improperly.

Hey, I tried desperately to make goats work because they are small and efficient. If someone has different taste buds, or gets a better set of goats, go for it! I just got tired of people complaining about the taste – I’ve not had one complaint about cow milk.

[ozark_jewels]

DJ, I ainta argueing with you, but I know exactly the bucky tasting milk your describing and all goats DO NOT have it. Just as all goats do not taste *goaty*. Yes, some ethnic groups do want goaty tasting goats.....which is why they prefer to buy intact mature bucks instead of young wethers. But we do not, we butcher young wethers or older does. I have butchered an intact mature buck and with careful killing and meat handling, the meat was very good.
Top reasons for goat milk tasting "off", are wormy goats, subclinical mastitis, and improper cooling and handling. If these are not the cause, some goats simply have nasty milk.....no way around it, and yes, it is *nasty*. I am very picky about milk taste and I do notice. And contrary to popular belief, running a buck with the does does not taint the milk. Yep, nasty goat milk happens, but its not a *goat* thing, it is some goats thing. That is why I stress to taste the milk from the doe you are wanting to buy.
I didn't say stress caused the milk to taste goaty, but stress will taint the meat of many animals. I have had beef from a cow and a bull who died with lots of stress. It was only good as ground beef in a flavourfull food, because it was so strong. I have also had goat meat from goats who were chased and hauled before butchering. Yup, Gross. But my goats who are butchered here on the farm with their head in a feed bucket and a shot from behind?? I serve it to my "goat-meat hating" friends.....they loved it and wondered what type of beef it was. Good goat meat is delicious.
I say, try a goat, if you don't like it, you can always go for a cow. Not nearly the investment involved. But buy the right goat the 1st time, don't buy the first deal you find.
Like I said, I love cows and goats and have both. But if I was going to go for just one?? Goats would win hands down for being more profitable on a small farm.