Growing calves

[Rob30]

I have 8 bottle raised calves. 4 were last winters calves. I grew them out until summer on grain and milk replacer. I then let them out on pasture until now. The problem is they didn't grow. I have some 4 month old calves that were contained and fed grain. They cought up to the pasture raised calves.
I am keeping 3 of the females for cows. But I want the males to finish. I figure I will have to put them all on grain.
First of all will the 4 older calves catch up? Or have I stunted them?
Second I am looking for an economical feed. I am thinking barley and soybean with unlimited hay access.
Any suggestions?

[JeffNY]

Any dramatic change in feed can effect animals, but they usually do come around, and develop later. As far as the feed goes, I like a corn meal/soybean mix, which gives protein and energy. Another possible mix vs soybean would be distillers and corn meal mixed. Would increase fat levels, and there is also protein in distillers.



Jeff

[Shazza]

I think the stunting starts with the milk feeding...when did you stop feeding them milk?
They should have been having milk up until they were at least 6 mths to get good growth...weaning too early stunts growth. They wont catch up now, specially if you stopped milk and grain when putting them on the pasture.

[Faith Farm]

Last year I had a few steer and heifer calves on bottle milk replacer which
was getting out of hand until I picked up a Jersey cow who was difficult to
milk to take my place. She took on all 4 calves with wonderful results. All the
calves started out slow but 11 months later are all doing nicely. I just took
the heifer calf off her because I moved the Jersey and 3 steer calves to the
other farm I rent for better grass and for my bull to breed the Jersey.
There's nothing like the real thing.

[Rob30]

As far as early weaning it is common practice here. We wean veal calves at 4-6 weeks. We have never stunted one because of this. The guy who has taught us about veal calves has been doing it for years. His calves finish at 600-700lbs at 6 months. But he feeds nothing but grain after weaning.
We are hoping to feed as little grain as possible. But with early weaning I don't know if it is possible.
The older calves are eating well, they have big hay bellies, but little growth. They are all short horns though. The younger ones are holstiens. The biggest boy is about 350lbs now at 4 months.
I would rather rais them more naturally but, we simply can't.
How did you get the jersy to accept the calves? Or did you milk the cow and feed it to the calves? I know I could pick up a jersy cow cheap at this time of year.

[Faith Farm]

We placed the Jersey and two calves @ a time over night in the goat shed
which is confined. A concern was if she would harm the little one's.
She took all 4 calves this way very well, also I noticed the calves taking to
a few of our Angus mama's making life sweet.

We started the process by bottle feeding Beauty's (the Jersey) milk
for about a week.

[travlnusa]

We would buy holstein calves around 100-125 lbs, feed them milk replacer for 6 weeks, then on full grain.

My average gain was 3lbs/day.

Looking to get back into them now that the price of bull calves in this area have dropped back into a more affordable range.

[Shazza]

Apart from the fact that we just dont have any grain because of the drought...and what we can get is very expensive...in normal seasons how does feeding grain from 6 weeks of age be economically viable??
And when replying to posts one can only pass on personal experiences..and our experience with bottle raising has been they are stunted if weaned too early and put onto pasture...a totally different thing to what your friend does (virtually feed lotting calves).

[travlnusa]

I can not comment about the grain markets in your area, as you know it best.

To keep the cost low, we did not buy any premix from a feed store. We would buy dried corn from farmer as they took it out of the dryer. To that I would buy from the local feed store a pretein source. As of late, we bought sunflower pellets, a byproduct from their bio deisel venture.

My cost are (just figured out to consider getting back in):

Calf $100
Starter $50
Grain $100 for 120 days. (needless to say, this will vary a bit)

Total cost is $250 to get them up to 6-700 lb range.

Today I would get around $78-80 per hundred at sale. I can, most times, top the sale as they are conditioned on grain already, have large frame, and come to the sale without a hay belly.

The best money is when we sell direct retail sides. I will get steer to around 1400 lbs in 14-15 months, and sell at 2.50/lb hanging weight.

They are not in a feed lot setting. That would cost me more to manage manure. I put them on a small pasture that they keep mowed down pretty close and they eat the grain free choice.

[Rockin'B]

We have three bottle calves that were weaned from milk replacer at 6 to 7 weeks. They are now 5 mos old and look to be the same approximate size as any other calf we've had at the same age.

They were on starter sweet feed from the day we got them and have transitioned to cracked corn maybe a month ago.
They now get a little cracked corn midday and good quality hay 24-7.

They seem to be doing quite well to me.

[DJ in WA]

The experts can correct me where wrong, but here’s some ideas I’ve learned.

The digestive system needed to digest pasture/roughage is entirely different from the one needed to digest milk and grain.

Calves are born with the same stomach we have, so they live on a similar diet to ours – milk. At a few weeks of age, they normally start chewing on roughage, if available, which stimulates development of the rumen, an outgrowth of the esophagus.

In the rumen, microbes break down cellulose into sugars. Cellulose (fiber) cannot be digested by the simple stomach that newborn calves and humans have. Cellulose is similar to starch, but the sugar molecules are chained together with different bonds that our enzymes can’t break down. But the microbes can.

Microbes in the rumen live off the roughage, then the cow digests the microbes in it’s stomach like ours that it had since birth.

I see a problem going from milk and grain straight to pasture diet. There is insufficient time to set up a rumen large enough to get nutrients from roughage. Especially if a lower protein source such as grass (compared to clover or alfalfa hay). The lower the energy and protein, the more must be consumed to get what’s needed. And if the rumen is not developed, can’t eat enough. It’s good to provide hay while on milk and grain, get the rumen developing, and phase into the roughage more prepared.

A few years ago I drove a long way to get a heifer I wanted. Found they weaned her at 3 months and then fed her grass hay only. She looked pretty rough at 5 months age. Was eating voraciously trying to get enough nutrients. Got her home and gave alfalfa and grain and she improved quickly.

So, I’d recommend providing roughage early to stimulate rumen development, and supplementing protein and energy when weaning and going to pasture. Legumes for protein (soybean, alfalfa, clovers, peas, etc). Don’t know the quality of your pasture, but legumes would increase protein as long as careful not to cause bloat.

I guess if you keep them on straight grain after weaning, they’d never have to develop a rumen. I just don’t know the economics of that. And pasture raised is healthier beef.

[Rockin'B]

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

The experts can correct me where wrong, but here’s some ideas I’ve learned.

The digestive system needed to digest pasture/roughage is entirely different from the one needed to digest milk and grain.

Calves are born with the same stomach we have, so they live on a similar diet to ours – milk. At a few weeks of age, they normally start chewing on roughage, if available, which stimulates development of the rumen, an outgrowth of the esophagus.

In the rumen, microbes break down cellulose into sugars. Cellulose (fiber) cannot be digested by the simple stomach that newborn calves and humans have. Cellulose is similar to starch, but the sugar molecules are chained together with different bonds that our enzymes can’t break down. But the microbes can.

Microbes in the rumen live off the roughage, then the cow digests the microbes in it’s stomach like ours that it had since birth.

I see a problem going from milk and grain straight to pasture diet. There is insufficient time to set up a rumen large enough to get nutrients from roughage. Especially if a lower protein source such as grass (compared to clover or alfalfa hay). The lower the energy and protein, the more must be consumed to get what’s needed. And if the rumen is not developed, can’t eat enough. It’s good to provide hay while on milk and grain, get the rumen developing, and phase into the roughage more prepared.

A few years ago I drove a long way to get a heifer I wanted. Found they weaned her at 3 months and then fed her grass hay only. She looked pretty rough at 5 months age. Was eating voraciously trying to get enough nutrients. Got her home and gave alfalfa and grain and she improved quickly.

So, I’d recommend providing roughage early to stimulate rumen development, and supplementing protein and energy when weaning and going to pasture. Legumes for protein (soybean, alfalfa, clovers, peas, etc). Don’t know the quality of your pasture, but legumes would increase protein as long as careful not to cause bloat.

I guess if you keep them on straight grain after weaning, they’d never have to develop a rumen. I just don’t know the economics of that. And pasture raised is healthier beef.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Our calves had water, mineral, good hay, sweet feed from the first day that we got them. They gradually ate more and more hay.

[JulieLou42]

The calf I'm raising now couldn't eat any grain successfully until he was about 3 months old. Didn't have much interest in it anyway. He'll be 6 months old on Jan 10th and is still nursing. He started trying to eat hay by the time he was 5-6 days old. He's was gaining 3.5# p.d. till the snow began flying about a month ago, and since has been at 3# p.d. I'm expecting his mother to wean him any day now, as she did with her first one before he was 8 months old. I haven't consistently given him the grain ration [COB] because I want him primarily grassfed.

His older brother lives near here, and had his mother's milk for the first two weeks, and calf rations for a while. They didn't give him any milk replacer that I'm aware of. I noticed that by the time he was 6 months old, he had a belly on him, whereas neither of my other two calves got that. Now I know what that's from, as all he was getting was hay from about 2 months old. And at nearly 18 months, he seems small to me. I see him about once a week.