Amount of Grain Question

[iacceptcash]

I have 2 steers that are approx 900 lbs each that I am in the process of finishing for the butcher. I started them on grain slowly, and now I am up to 14lbs of grain a day each, plus 4 large handfuls of hay (total). I feed twice a day, and when they finish off the grain, they go right to the hay and finish it off. Am I not giving them enough to eat? I figured they would eat the grain, and the hay would last most of the day. I plan on moving up to 16lbs of grain a day + 1 handfull of hay each this weekend, and the following week moving up to 18lbs of grain. Once I get to 18lbs of grain each a day I plan on giving them only 1 handfull total of hay a day. Does this seem about right?

Another question: I am feeding them a finishing mixture fthat I get from the feed mill down the road from me supplemented with additional cracked corn. (4 parts finish mixture - 1 part cracked corn). Does this seem ok? Do I need to get them any additional protein, (like maybe range cubes once or twice a week)?

Thanks

Tim

[Rockin'B]

I'd feed hay 24/7. they need the roughage so they don't grain intoxicate.

[JulieLou42]

Are they for you or market? For family, the only grain would be rolled barley, 4 No. 10 cans per day for the last two weeks before slaughtering...and all the good hay they'll eat...we're eating a wonderful steer from 2.5 years ago.

The barley was tested out best in our area for finishing beef 3 years ago by University of Idaho Ag Extension people. It was "creep fed" whatever that means.

[JeffNY]

Corn meal is my choice. I love the stuff, it finishes animals really nice. I fed our steer about 6lbs of corn meal the last 45 days of his life, with green chop. He put on 3lbs/day from Sept 1st to Oct 15th. The butcher shop said he had a nice fat layer on him, and he looked really good. Corn meal is cheap, its energy, coupled with good quality hay, he will marble nicely.

BTW: The people who bought the meat said it melted in their mouth.


Jeff

[iacceptcash]

Originally Posted by JulieLou42

Are they for you or market? For family, the only grain would be rolled barley, 4 No. 10 cans per day for the last two weeks before slaughtering...and all the good hay they'll eat...

From what I have read, corn, and barley are about equal for finishing out. (Corn is just cheaper where I live)

I was under the impression that I need to slowly build up the grain until they were eating about 2% of their body weight a day. And at that time I would only give them just enough hay (like a handful) to keep some roughage in their system. Is this correct?

[Up North]

Ramping up grain over time is prudent. I think your grain program is fine, but I would provide hay FREE CHOICE. Don't see any benefit to limiting their hay.
Hay will act as a binder, so steer can digest and utilize grain rather than just pooping it out the back end.

[michiganfarmer]

There is a neighbor near me who finishes a couple hundred beef cattle per year. He raises all his own feed. He feeds ground corn, corn silage, and hay. He keps ground corn, and hay in front of them 24/7. He feeds a limited amount of silage. I dont know how much per animal. I dont know how the cattle keep from getting sick on all that corn, but that's how he feeds.

does anyone here know anyone that feeds free choice grain? I mean grain in front of the cattle 24/7?

[iacceptcash]

The reason I was limiting hay was because I thought that to be "grain finished" they needed nothing but grain, with just enough hay to keep their digestive systems working. So should I keep hay free-choice until they go to market, or just until I have them on the full amount of grain? Also how much grain should they be getting? I was planning on increasing grain until around 2% of body weight, but now I am thinking I should increase (slowly) all the way up to 3%.

Tim

[rman]

2% corn a day is fine. I raise several Holstein steers every year. 7 weeks before they are to be butchered I start giving them grain. I increase the grain a pound a day until they are getting 20 pounds a day of cracked corn and all of the pasture they can graze. They stay at 20 pounds of grain for the last 30 days. I took this years steer in last sunday and I'm cooking a prime rib from last year in the oven right now.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by michiganfarmer

There is a neighbor near me who finishes a couple hundred beef cattle per year. He raises all his own feed. He feeds ground corn, corn silage, and hay. He keps ground corn, and hay in front of them 24/7. He feeds a limited amount of silage. I dont know how much per animal. I dont know how the cattle keep from getting sick on all that corn, but that's how he feeds.

does anyone here know anyone that feeds free choice grain? I mean grain in front of the cattle 24/7?

Yup.

There are three theories on feeding cattle.

1. Grass-fed only. Just some mineral mix & tad of protien added to the pasture or bales.

2. Ramp up grain for the last 2-3 months, as hay is used a bit less.

3. Almost solid grain. _This_ needs to be monitored very carefully, or they will founder. Using whole ears or oats in the grain mix helps add some roughage. They can be fed with a Steer Stuffer (brand name of a contraption like a hog feeder) where they have bushels of grain mix in front of them 24/7. Best to be mixed with some silage which offers some roughage, or only a small bit of hay.

We will find fans & detractors of all 3 types of feeding. #1 is slow, #2 is a good compromise of the good & bad, #3 gives well marbled meat as fast as possible with good management.

There are plusses & minuses to each, depends where you are, what you need, who your buyers are.

--->Paul

[rambler]

Originally Posted by iacceptcash

The reason I was limiting hay was because I thought that to be "grain finished" they needed nothing but grain, with just enough hay to keep their digestive systems working. So should I keep hay free-choice until they go to market, or just until I have them on the full amount of grain? Also how much grain should they be getting? I was planning on increasing grain until around 2% of body weight, but now I am thinking I should increase (slowly) all the way up to 3%.

Tim

To finish my cattle they get almost as much ground ear corn (75%) and oats (25%) as they can clean up 2x a day, as well as all the hay they want. The hay is not in perfect condition, typical cattle hay. I don't wait 2 weeks to get the grain up to max.

But I have holstien/ angus crosses.

You have to adjust your ration for your breed. But I think you are feeding your critters too little. If you feel like living on the edge, up the grain. If not, up the hay. It is hard for them to be limited on both grain & hay at the same time.

Cattle form different enzymes in their tummies to digest grain, or to digest grass. You need to allow them to make the switch slowly. But once switched, it doesn't take so long to add 2 lbs of grain a day. Once you get to 10lbs a day, they are switched over.

--->Paul

[Up North]

Originally Posted by michiganfarmer

does anyone here know anyone that feeds free choice grain? I mean grain in front of the cattle 24/7?

Yes. My Buddy Cletis in Iowa has done this for years, raising out Holstien, Holstien/Angus steers. He uses steerstuffer that Rambler has described. However, the grain in front of them was ground EAR CORN, so the cobs were the roughage. He also provided all the clean oat straw, yes straw, they wished to eat.
If you have shelled corn or cracked corn, you need to feed hay or straw for roughage along with it.

[DJ in WA]

Some background info that may influence your plan.

Cattle are not designed to eat grain. If not done correctly, they can get sick. The carbohydrates change the rumen microbial population, resulting in production of lactic acid. The acid can burn a hole in the rumen wall, allowing infection of the rumen, and into the bloodstream, then infecting the liver. From the section on liver abscesses from my Merck Manual:

“Liver condemnation rates as high as 40% were recorded in a large survey of cattle slaughtered in the USA.”

To help prevent these abscesses, antibiotics are fed, as explained at this site:

http://www.advs.usu.edu/pdf/Feedlot%20nutrition.pdf

So, I suppose if you know what you’re doing, and you’re really careful, you can push lots of grain and little hay. Apparently that puts more fat in your beef and on your body. But for animal and human health, I’d go more hay than grain. I did that on our last steer butchered last year. Just a couple cans of grain daily. Tasted alittle different at first, but I soon got used to it. I’ve never been a fan of lots of fat to cut off.

It’s all what you get used to. There are people around here from the middle east who just have to have goat meat to eat, which most Americans can’t stand.

[Paula]

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

Cattle are not designed to eat grain. If not done correctly, they can get sick. The carbohydrates change the rumen microbial population, resulting in production of lactic acid. The acid can burn a hole in the rumen wall, allowing infection of the rumen, and into the bloodstream, then infecting the liver.

Another thing - the feeding of high grain diets to cattle is what has caused the killer e-coli strain to evolve and survive in cattle. This particular strain thrives in a high acid environment. It cannot survive in a grass-fed (only) rumen.
It only makes sense that if we feed cattle the way they evolved to eat over thousands of years that they'll be healthier and be healthy for us to eat also. Grass-fed beef is actually healthy to your heart and body. Feedlot beef is very damaging to our bodies over time. And yes, those of you who feed your beef at home using feedlot beef methods are still producing feedlot quality beef, just doing it at home makes it no better. OK, maybe you don't use the growth hormones. Better in some ways, but I'll probably still be seeing you and your family members in the ICU for coronary artery blockages in years to come.
OK, rant over.
I do respect the rights of every individual to live their lives and raise their animals as they see fit, as long as they're not infringing on others' rights of course. I also respect that people have the right to smoke, drink, whatever - again, as long as they confine the damage to themselves, ie: don't force others to breathe their smoke, don't mistreat wife/kids when drinking. Pretty good coming from someone who's 1st dh died from lung/brain cancer, I think.
BUT - I do also think people need access to information so they can make informed decisions about their health.
So to put it more plainly...don't flame me

[swollen tongue]

grass fed, some grain, hay and pasture and fresh water..........that's all it takes to raise some good tasting beef without gobs of fat on it. that's what I do and it works. No need to cram grain into them.

[DJ in WA]

Good point on the E. coli, Paula. I have mentioned that before but forgot to on this thread. Not only does the more acid rumen promote the growth of dangerous E. coli, but since they are used to acid, our stomach acid can't kill them.

Interesting hearing about the E. coli outbreak from spinach. I heard some speculation this morning about the ultimate source of the E. coli. Probably irrigation water contaminated by E. coli from cattle manure.

When the E. coli outbreak ocurred earlier this year in W. WA, it was blamed on the raw milk. Sure, pasteurization would help, but nobody seems to question the feeding practices that promote the E. coli. Seems everyone assumes you just have to feed cows high grain rations. Apparently it's cheaper to do it that way, but seems that you lose quality and promote disease.

My brother worked at a feedlot, and I've spent time there (friend owns it). Interesting to see what they'll feed cattle. Big piles of reject french fries and stuff, lots of other waste products. Much of which has little nutritional value other than calories. We are what we eat, and so are cattle. Sure, you can add supplements to try to fill the void, but there are micronutrients in hay/pasture that don't come in a pill or feed bag.

[unioncreek]

The amount of grain you feed a beef is going to depend on the breed. I raise Longhorn cross calves, run them as yearling and feed them up to 6 pounds of grain a day for the last 120 days. If you look at all the published data of doing this with Longhorn cross calves you end up with all the beneifts of grass fed beef and better nutritional value than chicken. You can't beat that.

Bobg

[Alice In TX/MO]

We used to finish out steers for our own use. If you pour the corn to them without hay, they will eventually get the runs, and you will see your corn on the ground, not much different from how it went in.

I'm with the free choice hay folks. I think you've got him on plenty of corn now.

[travlnusa]

My holstein steers are on 100% grain, 24/7 from the time the are off the bottle. They are in a small pasture so that I dont have to clean up the barn after them. They do have a two walls to get out of the wind.

I have them on grain for 11 months and off the the butcher they go. Customers return year after year.

This is a very high cost way to raise them but I charge accordingly.

I also wait for the 4H kids buy to their calves for their local fairs. I buy the left overs and raise them (angus) on grass/hay, then finish on grain last 90 days. They also sell out each year, and this is what I put in my freezer.

[Rockin'B]

DW's grandfather was a farmer is South Dakota back when they HAD to use horses. They raised it all on the farm for family subsistence.
We were looking at my calves one day and he asked me when I was going to slaughter. I mentioned the typical routine of graining and killing at about a year old. He looked at me and said: Don't you like the taste of beef?

I was perplexed..... His point was that they never killed a calf until it was 18 mos. old at minimum and two years was better. Now I know that this isn't going to fly for commercial operations, but I've been doing it this way for quite awhile. I used to buy calves at aroung 250 to 300 pounds and pasture/hay feed until fattening time. Then it's time to bring on the grain for the last 90 days. Older beef calves have much more flavor than the young calves coming out of commercial feedlots. I don't go crazy on the grain fattening. I'm mostly looking to put on enough cover to allow a minimum of 14 days hang time.

This year we bought 3 bottle calves for the first time. They are fall calves and I'll not do that again. I'll have to keep these over two winters and I'd rather have a spring calf and do one winter.

My real end goal is to get a small fold of Highland cattle going and I'll most likely buy a cow calf pair next spring to get started.