Good cattle breed?

[Rouen]

I am hoping that in 3-5 yrs I'll be able to purchase my own plot and start homesteading my only problem is I am rather short and likely will be going it alone, I wouldn't need alot of meat, and enough milk for myself and any other critters(hogs, chickens), I know everyone recomends dexters but it's my understanding that the short variety can birth a standard sized calf, and that might be too much for me to handle.
so what kind of cattle would you recomend?

[jnap31]

I thik even a short person could handle a dexter from what I hear. Even the tall legged ones are still way more light weight than a big breed and the disposition is the most important thing IMO.

[JeffNY]

Well with a holstein you could just walk up to the udder, no bending down! j/k. Jerseys I wouldn't get, they are short but are ---- and vinegar. A hereford/holstein cross would give you two benefits. One is little problems, they would eat like a beefer, and milk nicely. However that still might be too much. Some herefords milk, shave the udder and you would have enough milk. Tough to say, but a dexter probably would be the best bet, shop around and go based on price. You might find some as I mentioned priced nicely.


Jeff

[Rouen]

I use to work with herefords and 2 castrated jersey bulls, the herd was tame but, the jerseys tried to kick me a few times and the herefords like to shove eachother into people,as a result I am not very fond of either breed.
I've been around holsteins too, the bulls seems just as testy as jerseys.

[jnap31]

Well I think Jersey bulls are famous for being mean.

[mayfair]

There are cows with good dispositions in every breed- you might shop aroud with an open mind and find the individual that suits you, regardless of breed.

[Up North]

I would look into the Milking Shorthorn, many of them will be 900-1200 pound cows, low maintenance, easy keepers. The original dual purpose breed, LOL.

[Oxankle]

A couple of points.

First, if you are alone and small too boot, what on earth are you going to do with a butcher calf? The meat will go bad before you get it half eaten, even if you go with a dexter.

Second, these small cows offer no economic advantage to you unless you have so little land that you cannot feed a standard cow. The tiny cows were developed to fit their environment, freeholders on tiny plots of ground that had to furnish all the garden, poultry, pasture and homestead needs for a family. In such circumstances a tiny cow that ate little and did not get large was easy to winter and yet produced a enough milke and meat to get the family by. There was no refrigeration, remember, so families shared meat when they killed, much as the "meat clubs" in the states did during the great depression.

Here in the US most of us, even those with small plots, generally have enough ground available for a standard cow, we can buy hay in round bales. If we cannot use all the meat from a crossbred beef animal there is a ready market for the animal at any sale barn. At the sale barn a dexter calf is a loser.

Under these circumstances a small standard sized cow makes sense. Look around and find one of the 900-1000 pound Jerseys that become as tame as pet dogs. A milking shorthorn if you can find one. Both these cows will produce more milk, butter and cheese than any but a large family can use. The rest can be sold, traded or fed to poultry, pigs and pets.

Such a cow bred to an angus bull produces a calf that will sell for twice or three times the price of a dexter calf. Artificial insemination is no problem with a tame cow, so if a neighbor with a good bull is not handy you still have no problem.

In short, unless you simply have no pasture for a standard cow, a dexter or kerry is a poor choice.

Bear in mind that I hold no grudges against the mini cattle; I simply do not think they make sense for a homesteader with space for a full sized cow.
Ox

[lost1]

I've got Dexters, couldn't be happer with them. I have had many different breeds dairy ones, big ones , some of everything. Been raising cattle for many years now.
The things I like about Dexters, easy to handle as now there is just my wife and I and we are getting older now. Dexters are easy keepers, they'll eat anything. Never had a problem calving with them, if you don't think this is important better think again. Smaller protions of the meat (steaks, roasts, etc.) are just right for us, we need to watch our weight. The meat is excellent. There is a good market for them although you have to advertise.
They are very easy on fences, I am using electric.
They tame down quickly and easily, I'm seriously thinking about milking one of them.
There is more, go to one of the Dexter association websites and read more, the information is pretty darn straight.

[Slev]

Ox,

You bring up some very good points to be considered. However, I respectfully disagree with you on several of them.

In as much as you stated a person could sell off extra milk, they could equally sell off 1/2 a butcher calf as well, so no waste. (no matter what the size)

Also, if the avg. Dexter weighs ~750 and because of their history, thrive on poorer conditions that say a "standard" breed might or might not, but being able to produce 2 dexters on the same plot of ground as a single standard sized cow, and adding up the weight difference, then it looks like you come out at least a couple of hundred pounds better off with the Dexters. (In my book, that an economic advantage, not disadvantage)

In my neck of the woods we are over 7.5 inches of rain short right now, and my Dexter is doing just fine, (that may not be the case with other breeds) My pond is totally GONE right now, nothing left but a mud hole that allows the livestock to get stuck in the mud and die, so I have locked it off.

I did just find out that while Dexters are/were thought to be decendants of Kerry cattle, Dexters are only .043 genetic code difference from the aberdiene angus. While you may not be able to educate the genreal public about that, a person can always go with what they personally like and just enjoy the taste.

I'm not one of those radical "Pro-Dexter" people out there, I will eat just about any cut of steak, or drink just about any type of milk.

...keeping in mind that I do agree with you on several of the other points you mentioned. I think historically, this board has been very pro-Jersey in the past. (I wonder if a person could poll that topic? or if i missed that poll?)

enjoy the rest of this warm, dry but slight breezy day.

Originally Posted by Oxankle

A couple of points.

First, if you are alone and small too boot, what on earth are you going to do with a butcher calf? The meat will go bad before you get it half eaten, even if you go with a dexter.

Second, these small cows offer no economic advantage to you unless you have so little land that you cannot feed a standard cow. The tiny cows were developed to fit their environment, freeholders on tiny plots of ground that had to furnish all the garden, poultry, pasture and homestead needs for a family. In such circumstances a tiny cow that ate little and did not get large was easy to winter and yet produced a enough milke and meat to get the family by. There was no refrigeration, remember, so families shared meat when they killed, much as the "meat clubs" in the states did during the great depression.

Here in the US most of us, even those with small plots, generally have enough ground available for a standard cow, we can buy hay in round bales. If we cannot use all the meat from a crossbred beef animal there is a ready market for the animal at any sale barn. At the sale barn a dexter calf is a loser.

Under these circumstances a small standard sized cow makes sense. Look around and find one of the 900-1000 pound Jerseys that become as tame as pet dogs. A milking shorthorn if you can find one. Both these cows will produce more milk, butter and cheese than any but a large family can use. The rest can be sold, traded or fed to poultry, pigs and pets.

Such a cow bred to an angus bull produces a calf that will sell for twice or three times the price of a dexter calf. Artificial insemination is no problem with a tame cow, so if a neighbor with a good bull is not handy you still have no problem.

In short, unless you simply have no pasture for a standard cow, a dexter or kerry is a poor choice.

Bear in mind that I hold no grudges against the mini cattle; I simply do not think they make sense for a homesteader with space for a full sized cow.
Ox

[Shinsan]

A Dexter might be able to throw a 'standard' size calf, but only if it's been serviced by a standard sized bull. And a Dexter is truly a dual purpose cow: Milk and Meat.
We have 2 acres, and the use of nearly two more, with only average pasture at the moment, and have decided on obtaining a Dexter, in calf, with another at foot. This decision was only made after a lot of careful research, and I'd recommend contacting the American Dexter Association, Stud Facilities or Breeders for more info.
Don't think we'll have any problem of disposing of excess milk, or meat after we fill the freezer, as both are highly regarded.

[Shinsan]

Hi Rouen,
Just a short note in further support of Irish Dexters. These are a few advantages of going along with this breed:

Lower Overheads: Their small size means less expensive fencing, handling equipment and transport facilities.

Easy to Handle: Because they are small and have a docile temperament, they are generally easier to handle and move than larger size cattle. They are enjoyable to work with, are less intimidating, and are ideal for farmers who don't have a lot of cattle handling experience. (Though I understand that you have had some experience in this area.)

Early Maturing: They mature much earlier than most conventional cattle, so you can join and market or butcher them earlier. To keep up a consistent milk supply it's better to have them calve regularly, which means you can have the income from selling the progeny to other homesteaders. (Which will also help expand the breed.)

Efficient Feed Converters: Studies show that they have a better feed conversion rate than bigger cattle, meaning a higher production of beef per acre, and have a high bone-out ratio of very good quality meat. Dexters are great foragers, and will, after eating the tastiest pasture of course, return and clean out a field that other cattle woud shun.

Good Milk Output: Cows will produce between 10 to 15 litres of high protein milk per day. The milk has rather small fat globules, similar to goat's milk, and is excellent for making many of the soft cheeses proving to be popular in the marketplace and in competition.

Fertile: They are known for their fertility and ease of birthing, and are able to reproduce true-to-type consistently. This would be especially important if you were to considering a breeding program.

Just to show that I'm not a one-eyed supporter of Dexters, if it was just the beef I was interested in, I'd probably go with 'Traditional' Herefords - what you call 'miniatures' in the U.S. Though I know you're not keen on the full size critter, the minis are a lot more docile than the big'uns.

regards,

Shin

[john in la]

The Pro Dexter crowd make some good points to promote their breed and while I am always open to suggestions of new ideas; owning a Dexter cow is still hard to except.

The breed does not seem to be standardized at all OR has picked up some bad inbreeding along the way.

Some very important questions I would want answered before considering a Dexter would be.

Where did the short leg or bulldog trait come from?
Some cows give about 2 gallons of milk a day and make a good dual purpose breed but others only give a Qt of milk which is barely enough for a calf never alone some for the fridge?
Would not the rarity of the breed make them cost more?
How common is AI semen or would I need to hunt for it?

Sorry to say I just love a Jersey. You can buy a holstein jersey cross any day of the week; The AI man keeps semen in stock; and I could get a fair price for a calf with no advertising by just selling at the local auction.

[Shinsan]

Hi John,

Don't know how it works in the U.S., but in Australia, Irish Dexters are the only cattle required to have their DNA confirmed for registration with the Dexter Association, so here at least the breed is very much standardised.

The short legged and long legged types are both susceptible, but from what I've seen of postings from many people, the perception seems to be that only the short legged type carries the gene responsible for producing 'bulldog' calves. A test is available to check for this gene, and should be made before joining.

AI is frequently used here, and access to semen can be arranged quite easily. There's a wide range of genetics available to the breeder, with Australia, Britain, Canada, Denmark, and South Africa, as well as North America, contributing to the gene pool. The local Dexter Association would happily and quickly put one in touch with a supplier.

Traditionally, the Dexters were kept as a house cow because of their ready supply of milk - generall around 10 to 15 litres per day - and regular calving would tend to ensure this. For a homesteader, this should be more than adequate.

About the cost - Sorry, I've no idea what it might be where you are, but I don't think it would be prohibitive, and producing a few calves could offset the purchase price and make a profit.

Cheers,
Shin

P.S. HERE'S WISHING YOU A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

[Slev]

Originally Posted by john in la

Some cows give about 2 gallons of milk a day and make a good dual purpose breed but others only give a Qt of milk which is barely enough for a calf never alone some for the fridge?.

Wow, I've never heard of ANY breed only gving a quart of milk per day. I'm wondering where your source was for that information. However, I would have to admit that I am equally skeptical of the Dexter that gives over 3 gallons per day.

I try to realize that when I'm reading all the propaganda out there that while there are extremes, the majority of Dexter's you are likely to come across will fall somewhere in the middle.

One explanation about the wide range in milk production might be that they are a dual purpose animal, and some traits lay heavier with beef end vs. the dairy end.

The surest way to find out for yourself would be to ask for a Dexter for your birthday.....

[john in la]

Originally Posted by Slev

Wow, I've never heard of ANY breed only gving a quart of milk per day. I'm wondering where your source was for that information. However, I would have to admit that I am equally skeptical of the Dexter that gives over 3 gallons per day.

I think it was a Mother Earth article.
I know.........50% of what you see on the internet is down right lies; 40% was said with good intension but is still not true; and 10% you need to take with a grain of salt.

Unlike most Dexter sites I found one that talked good about a Dexter but also warned to be careful in your selection because of bad traits.

The point I was trying to make is that somewhere along the line someone got over anxious and was inbreeding to bring back a almost extinct or not common cow. It happens.
While all breeds have mutts; it is a toss of the coin with a Dexter if you do not do your homework.

To me a Dexter is like a Ostrich. The meat is better for me; the hide and offspring sells for a premium; but the initial cost is high compared to other breeds and selling may be a problem if others in your area are not looking for this breed.

It just makes more sense to me to buy what your neighbor has; if that be a Jersey cross; a Dexter; or what ever.
Now if you were going to never sell any and eat all offspring buying a Dexter and using proven AI semen may not be a bad choice.

[woodspirit]

Originally Posted by john in la

The point I was trying to make is that somewhere along the line someone got over anxious and was inbreeding to bring back a almost extinct or not common cow. It happens.

All breeds of every species are inbred. That's why they are a breed. Breeding any creature true to breed brings out, or highlights, the good as well as the bad traits. Dalmations are proportionately more prone to being born deaf than other breeds. Herefords are more susceptible to skin tumors than many breeds. Jacob sheep have concerns with blindness related to genetics. Some dog breeds are more likely to get hip problems or breathing problems etc. I don't think anyone got over anxious and started inbreeding Dexters. It is just a natural occurance when breeding any creature, that certain genes get come to the fore along with traits that are considered desireable.

While all breeds have mutts; it is a toss of the coin with a Dexter if you do not do your homework.

Mutts cannot be a breed. So actually no breed has mutts. If anything, I think Dexter owners as a group tend to know more about genetics and breeding because of the potential for the chondro gene. It's not like putting a penny in a gum machine and getting a certain color piece of gum. It can be totally prevented in any herd.

To me a Dexter is like a Ostrich. The meat is better for me;

huh?

the hide and offspring sells for a premium;

I've never heard of any special market for Dexter hides. Even as it pertains to the cost of Dexters, I see Jerseys and holstiens and even crossbred animals selling for the same price as Dexters. Many times even more.

but the initial cost is high compared to other breeds and selling may be a problem if others in your area are not looking for this breed.

See above

It just makes more sense to me to buy what your neighbor has; if that be a Jersey cross; a Dexter; or what ever.

There is some logic to this statement.

Now if you were going to never sell any and eat all offspring buying a Dexter and using proven AI semen may not be a bad choice.

What is the point of buying any breed of any animal if selling the offspring isn't part of the plan. Why is using AI better than using a bull? Aside from the possible spread of STD's from one herd to another. Finding and using AI services for Dexters isn't as easy as using AI for Holstiens or Jerseys because of availability.

[tbishop]

What exactly is an "aberdiene angus"? Is that the "lowline" angus people mention? Is it an old breed that is no longer with us? Please let me know.

Tim B.

[KesWindhunter]

Originally Posted by tbishop

What exactly is an "aberdiene angus"? Is that the "lowline" angus people mention? Is it an old breed that is no longer with us? Please let me know.

Tim B.

Nah, they are really commonplace. Around here we just call them 'Black Angus', the original Angus cattle.

[Carol K]

I did just find out that while Dexters are/were thought to be decendants of Kerry cattle, Dexters are only .043 genetic code difference from the aberdiene angus. While you may not be able to educate the genreal public about that, a person can always go with what they personally like and just enjoy the taste.

Slev, I'd like to read more about the above, could you tell me where you found this info?

Thanks,
Carol