New Calf Owner!!

[dezeeuwgoats]

I just bought my first calves ever - at an auction. One looks like a jersey/beef type cross, and the other is a holstein, both are heifers. Both have clean bottoms, are shiny and especially the hostein - 'fat' as a dairy calf could be. These are a project for my son. He was smitten by the miniature jersey bull calf we watched for some friends of ours a few weeks back.

Anyway, we wanted to get a jersey x heifer to cross back to a beef bull, and have milk/cream for ourselves. If the hostein isn't a free martin (and I don't know how to tell ) then he can sell her as a 'springer', and if she is a fm then for beef, I guess. Either way, she is to be sold eventually. Am I safe to assume that a hostein heifer calf at an auction is probably a free martin?

I don't know if these calves will need milk or not - as they are bigger than I expected to buy. Should I just offer them a bottle, or a pail of goat's milk? I have about 2 1/4 acres of bermuda pasture, plus I feed alfalfa hay. Do I just toss things in to the girls to see what they are eating?

Thanks;
Niki

[john in la]

I would give them both a bottle just to be sure. Then give them some feed and see how much they eat. If they are old enough to eat over a lb; lb and a half of feed they are old enough to wean. If they will not eat the grain keep them on the bottle till they will eat.
You must feed them grain because a weaned calf of about 6 to 8 weeks old can not get enough out of just grass. It needs either milk or grain for good growth.

It is hard to say if the calf is a freemartin. Usually a dairy will not sell pure holstein heifer calves but you never know. The farmer may need some money to pay a bill.
A vet can tell most times if a calf is a freemartin but it will need some time to grow a little. The only sure way to tell now is with a DNA test. I think the test cost about $40 - $50.

[Tango]

WooHoo! Congratulations. Good finds. What did the Hosltein cost ya, if I may ask?

[dezeeuwgoats]

Okay - last night I put a 'crumb' of alfalfa hay in there with them. The little, brown calf started lipping at it right away. I also used a goat bottle/nipple (it's all I had) and the hostein sucked down three of them - about 48 oz of goat's milk that way - then I was able to pour the rest of the milk in a dish - BOTH calves drank the goat's milk out of the dish! WoooHoooo! I guess the little brown heifer smelled the milk on the hostein and figured she didn't want to miss out - she was first to the bowl this morning.

This morning - the hay was partly gone and the hostein was chewing her cud. The five gallon bucket of water was about half gone. The little brown calf drank this morning, but the holstein wouldn't - I went out and bought a calf bottle/nipple and am heating some goat's milk for her right now.

Hostein cost $80, nice, big calf. She's brown and white - so maybe she is a hostein x? I couldn't see color in the sale barn, and we brought her home at night. Now I'm looking at this little brown calf - and I'm wondering if she isn't a straight beef calf. She is smaller, far smaller than the holstein, and won't suck the bottle. I'll post some pictures in a bit. She cost $125. So, both calves are lipping hay - and will drink milk from a bucket - which is way cool. Better than I thought I'd do. So, I should give them a bit of grain? What kind?




Niki

[dezeeuwgoats]

The holstein seems to have semi-formed, grayish white, smelly poop. I KNOW all poop is smelly, more than usual??? lol She passed that when I fed her bottle to her last night. Should I treat her with anything???? It isn't the squirts, yet.

The lbc (little brown calf) seems to have normal droppings.

I have Albon on hand - but I hate to give antibiotic unless I have to. But I've also heard how fast a calf can die on you, and that auction calves have been exposed to EVERYTHING....

Niki

[dezeeuwgoats]

Here's the girls:

[dezeeuwgoats]

I accidently cut off that last photo - that lbc has two 'painted' eyebrows and a grin to match! Any good name ideas? lol

You can see how that holstein is more brown than black in the first photo. I haven't been able to get her to eat today. She sucks inefficiently using the calf nipple - nothing comes out. She wasn't great at the goat nipple either - but I just assumed that was because it was a goat nipple. She did drink from the pail last night - no such luck today. She hasn't had any milk at all today - while the lbc is greedily catching on - I can't leave the pail in there or else she tries to drink ALL of it.

niki

[Tango]

The Holstein is precious!!!! Maybe the lbc is a different dairy breed than Jersey crossed with a beef breed? Just guessing. My vet advised me against giving any antibiotic to my calves. For scours he recommends Kaopectate and Probios, actually probios is a good idea for both of them. If the others can't tell you the dose information for Kaopectate I'll wade through my desk to find the card (such is what my life has come to, wading )Oh and maybe the Holstein just needs to adjust to the milk? I know you'll keep an eye on her smelly grey poop and no appetite and all but it just may be a fluke. Those are excellent prices.

[Ken Scharabok]

Call your vet's emergency number and they them you have a VERY sick calf on your hands. If it hasn't taken in any liquids in the past 24 or so hours it will be SEVERELY dehydrated. As a minimum I suspect you will have to tube it with electrolyte to hydrate it and later with more goat milk. Vet may also have you inject water under the skin.

This calf is probably going to die. If you are going to save it you need to act now.

[dezeeuwgoats]

I didn't say it hasn't had ANY fluids in 24 hours. I said she took a good feeding of milk late last night (nine) and that 2 and 1/2 gallons of water were drunk by mid-morning, and that after cleaning and refilling only a few inches of water drunk today. It's the MILK she hasn't had today. If anything - she hasn't had milk during the day today, but she drank a regular serving size last night - and probably a gallon and a quart of water. She had water in her own pen, at the auction house. They've maybe drunk a gallon thus far today, together.

And both calfs are eating a little alfalfa also. Haven't caught on to the grain yet. The holstein is showing interest in sucking on my fingers so I'm going to go ahead and try another bottle - with the goat nipple this time. I think she has an undershot jaw - which is messing with her ability to suckle the cow nipple. She WANTS to suck and last night she sucked down the goat bottles, and then I led her nose into the dish and she drank from the pail that way. I'm going to hold off on that vet and see if I can get her to drink from the pail again after the goat bottle. Maybe that's why she was at the auction - that jaw/suckling thing. If I can get her to drink from a pail consistently, I should be home free.

The little lbc is coughing - just every now and then, but definately a cough the last three times I checked her. What should I give her for that? Is there a shot, or should I deworm her?

Niki

[dezeeuwgoats]

BTW - found out how old the holstein is - by her ear tag. Um, how embarassing! She was born May 31 - which makes her six weeks old. She just drank down two liters of milk. Goat nipple on a pop bottle. Wonder why she struggles so with the calf nipple? Makes no sense.

I am going to assume, since I can deworm goat kids that I can deworm calves. I'm looking up dosing instructions now. If I don't hear back here - I'll ask about that cough at the feed store. I'm going to hold off on th albon - since the droppings today look pretty normal.

Realize also, my time is two hours earlier than that posted at the top of my emails and Ken, I didn't see the "if" in your email - sorry if I seemed a bit short. Your email scared the daylights outta me, until I realized that - 'HEY - wait a minute here, she's had fluids.....' Last thing I want to do is have my son's first calves keeling over on him - he's so excited about them.

thanks;
niki

[john in la]

While your pictures are not great that does not look like a Holstein calf. At $80 I can almost guaranty that is not pure Holstein even without a picture. It looks more like a Jersey Holstein cross. The other one looks like a beef cross; maybe a longhorn.

1) Separate the calves if you can this way you can tell who is eating what and not spread a sickness from one to the other.
2) Tell your son to hold the bottle higher. You want her nose in the air. You do not need to hold it sky high but you want her head tilted back and her nose up.
3) While I can not remember the name of the drug since it has been a lot of years since I have had a auction calf around her; go to the vet and tell him you just brought home 2 auction calves. They make a 1 shot nasal spray that works good on clearing up all kinds of auction dieses.
4) At 6 weeks they could be weaned but sounds like they are not. A weaned calf will know all about feed and will knock you down to get it. Put them on a bottle till they start eating good. 1 bottle twice a day and that is it. NO MORE.
5) While you can use any good cattle feed I recommend using a good calf starter. It will be mixed just for starting calves on feed and will have molasses in it.
6) I would hold off on worming them. Do not want to put and undue stress on them. They have been through enough hard times the past few days.
7) If for some reason you can not get them to take the bottle (even once) change over to a electrolyte solution right away. They can not miss a bottle. It is not that they are not hungry it will be because they are sick.

[mpillow]

I found that probiotic paste and baking soda did a wonder for my little calf that didnt eat for 2 days....I made a goob of the probiotics and baking soda and shoved it down his throat you could see if they'll eat a piece of bread and give it that way

I mix my goat milk 3 pints milk 1 pint water too. And then wind them up to full strength milk and I start w/ calf manna mixed w/ my goat feed (16% sweet).

[dezeeuwgoats]

Thought I'd give an update on those calves: both are eating two quarts, morning and evening. Sometimes the brn/wht calf skips a feeding - I suspect when she's eaten more alfalfa. Last night she fumbled for too long, and we poured her bottle into the pail - she got all mad and stamped her feet! Both are pooping normally now - so no worries there.

I did go ahead and deworm. I didn't read John's post until too late! The lbc is on penicillin for that cough. We had a drop in temperature from about 110+ down to low 80's - so I decided I didn't want to risk waiting overnight to give the antibiotics and gave her what I had available late Saturday. She is gaining wait and her coat is looking better, she is eating well, in spite of the cough. I'll have to give her something probios for sure now.

Thanks so much for all the advice! I bought these calves to use up some of our goat's milk - so even if they were weaned - I'm de-weaning them! I'm glad to hear that the hostein isn't pure-bred - I WANTED a jersey cross, and I really loved that ms steer on the other thread about butchering age. Gosh he's pretty.

I really do appreciate all the feedback one can get her at HT - it is an amazing resource.

Niki

[Up North]

Niki- The tall dairy calf with the sleek shiny fur MIGHT be a Scandanavian Red breed, a milking shorthorn, or an Ayrshire. Note how the coloring darkens as you approach the muzzle. Classic MS or Ayr coloring, also the spotty markings on rear legs.
The other calf with white swooshes on forehead you may wish to name Corrie, as I beleive she is a Corriente or Corriente /Longhorn Cross. These are beef breeds used to produce roping steers for rodeo stock.
Perhaps the boys can practice their ropin' on her,LOL .

[dezeeuwgoats]

Corriente? Longhorn? Are corriente cattle polled? I really think she is polled - unless she is really young, which I doubt, looking at her feet and the growth line. I KNOW longhorn aren't polled, LOL. I may not be a cow person, but I can figure that one out. ggg.

She doesn't have the swirled hair like the goats have over their horn buds. She has no burn marks like the brn/wht calf. No bumps indicating horn buds either - do these not show up on cows until they are much older?

The brn/wht calf is lovely. I love her coloring. I hope I don't end up drowning in milk, though. I'll end up with a bazillion piglets and calves to raise!

Thanks;
Niki

[Ken Scharabok]

Parting with a calf or steer a child has come to love can be a very tramatic experience. Two options:

1. Make it clear the steer will be sold some day (when it is large enough). One day it is sold and then about two-weeks later you decide to buy beef in bulk for the freezer.

2. Name it something like Hamburger. Mr. T-Bone or Sir Loin and make it clear from the start it will eventually become table fare.

[dezeeuwgoats]

Ken I agree with both points. We are always very honest about what is going to happen.

Harry is our youngest child - and was only two when we started butchering. He's been the easiest in this regard. When we went to the auction to buy the calves the funniest thing happened. They have a snack shop - and I went to buy him a sandwhich - he chose a hamburger. While we were bidding on calves he was eating his burger and he tugs on my sleeve. "Is this hamburger made out of cow?" I told him 'yes, it is cow'. He got a little grin on his face and said, 'I KNEW it was cow'. lol This is the kid at the seafood restaurant, at the age of three, when looking at the live lobsters and crabs - the likes of which he had never seen, or eaten for that matter said as LOUDLY as he could - 'Let's kill 'em and eat 'em!!!" The hostess didn't know what to make of it, lol. When Harry shows people around the farm and comes to the white cornish x broilers he points to them and tells them, "There's chicken inside!"

My older two kids had a harder time at first. They are now, at least, 'mercy killers' meaning that if something is suffering or in pain they can dispatch it. They have also butchered smaller things like rabbit and chicken. They are ten and twelve.

And that's why we bought heifers - we were planning on keeping them for breeding unless they end up being free martins, at which point we would sell at auction or privately for beef, as we already have a 700lb steer, the first we've actually had on property that we will take to the butcher's. Up to this point, dh's parents kept our beef in their pasture, but they moved. Harry wants to keep a breeding cow and sell the calves, and maybe a little milk once we move. I want cream, and some skim milk for the hogs, and our yearly beef steer.

First beef calf I ever knew was named: Bobby Q.

Niki

[Up North]

After having the whole head of a hog on the kitchen Table :1pig: , i suspect the boys understand the fate of farm animals,LOL.

As to the calf's genetics- AW Shoot who knows- Get them boys a new lariat and let them rope an Angus/Corrie or whatever the heck it is, LOL........cheers